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Author Topic: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser  (Read 109944 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #90 on: May 16, 2011, 02:22:39 PM »
E Goose,
Very interesting ! I appreciate the direction this takes.
In stead of me just willy nilly searching for more info to study,can you
provide any other reading material or links that would be beneficial in experimenting with this?

Thanks
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #91 on: May 16, 2011, 02:45:36 PM »
E Goose,
Very interesting ! I appreciate the direction this takes.
In stead of me just willy nilly searching for more info to study,can you
provide any other reading material or links that would be beneficial in experimenting with this?

Thanks
Chet

Chet

Sorry, I don't have anything offhand.  I have done the hard yards long ago and now only distilled my own personal notes.  What I tender to you in way of hefty hints are more than ample for you to piece it together.  You already have enough.

Physics and chemistry isnt actually that complex, it has only been made so by grey bearded old men who have spent too many years in Ivy League institutions listening to their own rhetoric and rewriting the books into lengthy equations that equate to bulldust.

One of the best questions you can ask is what Professor Julius Sumner Miller always hit his TV audience with - "WHY IS IT SO"??

You know what creates HHO = Basic electrolysis (which is inefficient)
You now look at Catatalytic proccess  = CONVERSION (HIGHER efficiency)
I have briefly touched on PLASMA (which nobody seized on) = ??? 

Could there be a magical conversion in a combination of all of this?  Enter the Plasma Reformer!

Try it and see.

I suggest that for the LEP (low energy pulse) you go read Aarons thread at energeticforum and use the plasma sparkplug circuit for the trial.


Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #92 on: May 16, 2011, 03:53:02 PM »
E Goose
Quote,
I have briefly touched on PLASMA (which nobody seized on)
---------------
Yes I did not understand that Brief Plasma /Fuel reference?
And how the gains could happen?
Was the fuel in a manifold [tube] around the plasma?,Or visa versa ?
Or in direct contact some how :o?

Things to ponder and understand if we are truly going to get away from the "bowser"!

Thanks for all your help and your patience !

Chet
Studying................


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #93 on: May 16, 2011, 04:06:20 PM »
Hi Everyone,

It is now time to tell you about this...

I originally designed this concept years ago before the HELT but at that point I had not even thought of the LFV and so it was shelved in pursuit of other directions.

Those directions eventually led me to the LFV, which have since led to the GECV courtesy of Mr Goose's excellent input.

The Housingless Rocket Turbine is a ring with mini rocket engines mounted on them that then drive the ring through pulsed combustion. You can consider it the same as a tethered rocket engine spinning in a circle.

Now that we know about catalytic cracking and can use a device to do it that does not require additional hardware such as pumps this idea is now viable again. It was originally designed for HHO but I have adapted it because HHO is just too hard to implement at present time.

This design releases the constraints of limited potential difference from the pivot as the support ring can be built light and strong with modern carbon fibre composites and carries no heat. This creates a much larger turning moment torque than with traditional turbine designs.

The mini rockets contain their own power supply and fuel and pump via capillary action. They are then pulse detonated with an ECV variant.

The Rocket Ring will work on its own but can be enhanced with a secondary Impulse Ring that the Rocket ring pushes against, instead of air.

The Impulse ring has an intake and a vent and inside is baffled following RotoMax concepts for conversion of energy to impulse and then back to velocity.

The rings spin in opposite directions to each other.

The load on both rings is controlled via the PMA's independently.

Enjoy :)

RM :)


Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2011, 06:18:20 PM »
RM
Who doesn't love Rockets?,What kind of efficiency can we expect?
I know you can make this work!
Talk about Simple!!,Power to weight must be rediculous!!
Plasma drive rocket motor !!
Why Not??
More Please..................

Chet
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 06:41:19 PM by ramset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2011, 06:18:20 PM »
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Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2011, 07:50:27 PM »
Hi Chet,

I thought you would like that ;)

Ok...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

“The magnitude of torque depends on three quantities: the force applied, the length of the lever arm connecting the axis to the point of force application, and the angle between the force vector and the lever arm. “

“The length of the lever arm is particularly important; choosing this length appropriately lies behind the operation of levers, pulleys, gears, and most other simple machines involving a mechanical advantage.”

“A force applied at a right angle to a lever multiplied by its distance from the lever's fulcrum (the length of the lever arm) is its torque. A force of three newtons applied two metres from the fulcrum, for example, exerts the same torque as a force of one newton applied six metres from the fulcrum.”

There are three selective quotes from that Wikipedia page I linked to above. So we can see that the length of the lever arm is particularly important. This is why Tesla went so big with his discs, he was trying to maximise the turning moment (and also the time component), or torque.

We know the problems we have with large discs tearing themselves apart due to the speed differential which the discs radii are turning at, and because centrifugal force applies a tensile force that also wants to tear the material apart. So it is being pulled apart in different planes and so must be very strong to withstand this.

This was the reason I went to this design, the support frame is just that, a support frame. Each part of it can be designed to absorb the forces it will be undergoing. It can also be made super light out of modern materials.

I was also able to get rid of the turbine housing using this design, because they give me a headache, as housings always do. Boundary layer turbine housings are annoying anyway because you lose pressure due to the inability to seal a static to a rotating without applying a drag force through friction.

So, basically this design allows a fantastic potential power to weight ratio, because we can go so light on the support structure and increase the power by extending the lever. It is going to be limited by how large a diameter you can go and still support the impulse force without critical failure.

I added the Impulse ring on the outside because air is a thin medium and does not push back that hard. So if we have “buckets” to catch the exhaust gases we can use them to propel the Impulse Ring and also provide more of a “repulsion” of the Rocket Ring.

I do not think we would lose much fluid if it was designed right because you would want a relatively large hole to catch the initial pulse, and the baffles get smaller to extract more force from the fluid as it heads round the ring to the exhaust.

Because it is pulse detonated you will have one pressure wave travelling at a faster speed right behind the wave in front that is slowing due to energy being extracted, so it will be hard for the exhaust gas to reverse flow as there is a larger energetic force behind it.

Turbine to PMA losses will be small anyway being on the same shaft.

You can put multiple rings on the same shaft one above the other and create a real monster Rocket Turbine if you wanted because they only act in the horizontal plane.

You can easily cool the outer ring because of its spin which could be tapped to create a vacuum and draw water up an outer casing hollow wall, which would become steam and give you another energy output to use for something else.

So I think the efficiency will be quite high, but I honestly don't know until it is built and tested.

You would want as many Rockets on the ring as possible and you would want the angle of each Rocket to be as close to 90 degrees to the centre pivot as possible, but they must aim into the Impulse Ring.

Do not even think about welding a structure together, the welds will crack, and the thing will pull itself apart. Stainless Hydraulic Fittings at suitable angles and Schedule pipe screwed in would work well I think as a support ring (it does not have to be round), and 1/8” size to keep weight down.

http://www.cotswoldengineeringsupplies.co.uk/Hydraulic%20Adaptors/adaptorsproducts.php?item=BS45FF&inthere=&line=Hydraulic%20Adaptors

http://www.cotswoldengineeringsupplies.co.uk/Hydraulic%20Adaptors/adaptorsproducts.php?item=BP45MM&inthere=&line=Hydraulic%20Adaptors

http://www.cotswoldengineeringsupplies.co.uk/Hydraulic%20Adaptors/adaptorsproducts.php?item=BFFCROSS&inthere=&line=Hydraulic%20Adaptors

45 deg or 135 deg fittings and fixed female crosses would allow you to mount support rings to your rockets and to each other, then you just have to get the length of the pipe right and thread it.

You could use liquid fuel for this design but I was never interested in that for obvious reasons but you can try it if you want too. Once the thing is spinning you can use centrifugal force to get the fluid up to the rocket valves, no pump needed.

Or, my preference is to mount the fuel generator such as we have been discussing recently on the turbine and then it can run itself from the gas. You could also refill liquid fuel in the centre from a static float tank and use the vacuum created by the turbine to suck the fuel into the reservoir, if you design it right. So theoretically it could keep going until the bearings seize.

So, any questions ?

RM :)

Haha I just saw your edit... you remember my flippant hint of a Plasma Turbine a little while back... ?  8)

Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2011, 01:57:06 AM »
E Goose
Quote,
I have briefly touched on PLASMA (which nobody seized on)
---------------
Yes I did not understand that Brief Plasma /Fuel reference?
And how the gains could happen?
Was the fuel in a manifold [tube] around the plasma?,Or visa versa ?
Or in direct contact some how :o?

Things to ponder and understand if we are truly going to get away from the "bowser"!

Thanks for all your help and your patience !

Chet
Studying................

Chet

No worries.

I was actually quite clear when explaining the plasma interaction in the MIT patent.  I said something to the effect that the plasma was only in effect in the AIR INTAKE tube SEPARATE from the fuel tube. 

However this does not mean that this is the only way to bend plasma.  You are still not asking the question "why is it so"?  For instance - When you explode a volatile substance is it more effective in a confined space or open air?  Answer = confined space.  We can see this with hand grenades, internal combustion engines and a whole heap of other applications.  Use of a VERY small amount of fuel that would normally be USELESS in open air (dissipated energy) and yet when confined under pressure can be harnessed to produce power or cause incredible damage.  All these products came about from somebody making a smart observation long ago.

You need to look DEEPER beyond what you know now and REASON with yourself as to why things behave the way they do.  You dont need a University degree to accomplish this, just a level head and a yearning for discovery.  The catalytic process is not that difficult to fathom once you break it down to laymans terms.

Back to plasma.  Chet, plasma comes in various states and can be induced under various environments.  For now, we will refer to electrical plasma (HV ionization of air).  IF you build that carbon fibre reformer with plasma chamber,  MAKE SURE YOU ONLY USE ETHANOL (ALCOHOL) AND WATER!!!!!  I really shouldnt have to spell that out but in this day an age, people do some really daft things sometimes.  You asked was the plasma separate from the fuel in the MIT patent?  If you reasoned this out, deductive logic will allow you to realize it HAS TO BE, especially if the fuel is gasoline otherwise what will you get if you combine spark + gasoline + confined space?  Explosion right!!   :o  :D We only want that happening in the engine!!  Plasma has the ability to change the state of certain elements.

Your goal is to produce a combustible gas at very low energy cost.  Its as simple as that.  Reforming allows you to do this.

@RM  You getting carried away again man!!!?   :D  Youre like a man that hasnt even won lotto yet and is trying to figure how to spend the money.   :DFocus on the MAKING of the fuel big fella and then burn it later LOL.  Besides, as much as your rocket turbine looks exciting, the torque will be incredibly low compared to diesel and gasoline engines.  Why reinvent the wheel and waste time?

Anyway...its up to you.

## DISCLAIMER - ALL EXPERIMENTS POSTED WITHIN THIS THREAD, UTILIZE HIGH VOLTAGE AND EXPLOSIVE FUEL CONVERTED WITHIN CONFINED SPACES.  AS SUCH, WORKING UNDER SUCH ENVIRONMENTS CARRY A EXTREME RISK OF ELECTROCUTION, FIRE, EXPLOSION AND DEATH EVEN IF STRICT SAFETY PRINCIPLES ARE ADHERED TO.  READERS EMBARK ON THESE EXPERIMENTS AT THEIR OWN PERIL AND NOT AS A RESULT OF ADVICE FROM THE AUTHOR.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2011, 01:57:06 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2011, 02:39:51 PM »
Mr. Goose
Your saying that this type of "reactor" can fit in your hand and make enough fuel to run our cars ?

I see in the link an 89% efficiency claim.
I'm trying to rap my head around this whole plasma fuel concept ?

?
Chet



Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2011, 03:48:52 PM »
Mr. Goose
Your saying that this type of "reactor" can fit in your hand and make enough fuel to run our cars ?

I see in the link an 89% efficiency claim.
I'm trying to rap my head around this whole plasma fuel concept ?

?
Chet

Chet

I wasn't SPECIFICALLY referring to that design but yes, it doesnt have to be large like HHO or gasification and plasma reformers can be made very small.

Stop trying to overthink this stuff.  Some numbers are hard to crunch.  Just go and experiment...and be careful OK.

Best

Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2011, 04:30:55 PM »
E Goose
Yes I will be careful ,Very............
Started my adult life repairing  aircraft engines [you can imagine the results of Careless their]
Went on to a whole new direction ,Highrise demolition in NYC [again Extra Careful  :o !]
I don't really do "Willy Nilly" very well!,Its one of the reasons My phone rang that fateful day in February 1993,the chief engineer of the port authority of Ny and NJ requesting me to come down to the Trade center after the bombing!
You can rest assured I will be careful!
   
Its the "fruitful" part that I need to focus on!,I don't have much "Play time",
And I'm not so sure that our society as a Whole has much either!

Still studying.........
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #99 on: May 17, 2011, 04:30:55 PM »
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Offline ElectricGoose

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #100 on: May 17, 2011, 05:03:44 PM »
Ramset

Good to hear man.  Nothing as unfriendly as a face full of propeller!   :D

Best

Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #101 on: May 19, 2011, 03:03:20 PM »
Mr.Goose
Yes "propeller Puss" is to be avoided at all costs!
Got this from a friend yesterday a real "saint".

http://waterfuel.100free.com/plasmatron.html

This Plasmatron stuff is getting very very interesting!
Well I suppose it has always been interesting ,But now it all starts to come into "focus"!
And to see the Boys at MIT [practically my Neighbors] actually building prototypes for mass production......................

Chet
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 04:44:54 PM by ramset »


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #102 on: May 19, 2011, 04:58:28 PM »
Who likes jigsaws ?

I do...

So let's put some pieces together :)

Water pressure in... Atomised into Vapor... Electrolytic conversion into Plasma... Through an NRV... Blow it up in the Combustion Chamber... Convert the High Pressure to Velocity with an ECV...

Plasma Turbine anyone ?

RM :)

@ Goose: I think you missed the point of the Rocket Turbine design. It requires no pump as I have used the centrifugal force generated by the Turbine to pump the fuel. It can be refuelled without downtime. It takes advantage of lateral distance, in the same way as Tesla's 60” Turbine, without the mechanical drawbacks. Nozzle to Turbine losses should be similar to conventional Boundary Layer Turbines. It's power to weight ratio is going to be huge, and yes, I think it is going to be quite a Torque'y little number ;)

Catalytic cracking is a bridge technology for ICE's, it is not the future in my opinion, therefore I consider “new wheels” to not be a waste of my time!

RM :)

Offline ramset

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #103 on: May 19, 2011, 07:13:13 PM »
RM
Nothing wrong with having a nice ecological fuel for the transition period!
http://www.magnegas.com/technology.html

Chet


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #104 on: May 19, 2011, 07:48:49 PM »
Hi Chet,

I completely agree with you, a nice eco-friendly fuel is going to be essential for the transitional period. There are billions of ICE's that can be utilised when reliable systems are openly known and available.

I also feel that it is essential for some of us to look to the future, and I believe the turbine is going to be the engine of the 21st Century. It is perfectly suited for electrical power generation and therefore to becoming the power house behind electric vehicles.

It is also cheap and easy to build, as well as being nearly impervious to EMP attack and therefore provides a guarantee of power that electrical resonance systems utilising energy from the void can never do.

So it's a two stage process. It does not make sense for all of us to focus on the transitional period and believe that is the future.

RM :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Alternate Fuel for Diesel and Gasoline Engines - 100% off the Bowser
« Reply #104 on: May 19, 2011, 07:48:49 PM »

 

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