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Author Topic: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?  (Read 914166 times)

ltseung888

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1005 on: February 06, 2012, 08:53:43 PM »
Hello Professor, 

I hardly know where to start in the face of all this enthusiasm. 
 â€¦If I could impose on you to look at my earlier post here.  He's proposing that the CORRECT analysis is to ASSUME that the battery - under closed circuit conditions - actually delivers a 'negative wattage'?  Which is extraordinary.  …  Convention requires that the wattage would be positive.  Would you concur?

Unless we iron this out - then we're at an impassable impasse - so speak
Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Dear Rose,
 
I do not know why you are so frustrated with Negative Power.  Even with AC delivery systems, we have Negative Power.  The standard explanation is that Positive Power represents Power Supplied from the Source to light lamps, drive motors etc.  Negative Power represents Power fed back to Source.
 
For perfect resistance environment, the AC Voltage and Current will be in phase.  There is only positive power.  However, if the load has inductive elements, the AC Voltage and Current will NOT be in phase and the Power Waveform as seen on any good oscilloscope will show negative Power.
 
In particular, the Joule Thief and FLEET prototypes can be tuned to such conditions that the net average Input or Output Power becomes negative.  This implies “recharging Circuits”.  More energy is fed back to source – my explanation is that external energy from the environment is led-out or brought-in.
 
If you examine a sample Output and Input Power waveform comparison of a FLEET prototype, you can see that the Output Power Curve is much larger than the Input.  The area under the Power Curve represents energy.  The Output Waveform contains much more energy than the Input.  Once we have such prototypes, we can do the many wonderful things described in the long Joule Thief Thread in overunity.com.  We can light up many LEDs, recharge batteries, heat up water etc.
 
I do not need or want to claim any prizes.  I do not believe that I am the Inventor.  I just used two oscilloscopes to show the Power waveforms.  Now I use EXCEL to analyze the csv files to be more scientific.  In particular, a Taiwan LED manufacturer is already improving their LED hat product.  Their laboratory results are confirmation of the many claims in the long Joule Thief Thread.  I treat the overunity FLEETs as Divine Revelations.  The water has turned into Wine.  I am just a server of this Divine Wine. 
 
If you have any questions related to the Power Waveform Comparisons or Negative Power (Recharging circuits), you can go to my workbench at overunityresearch.com (ltseung888).  The best thread to follow there is the Two Oscilloscope Tests.  Continue your excellent work.

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1006 on: February 06, 2012, 09:04:30 PM »

Itseung,

I am absolutely not talking about the power analysis on switching circuits.  What Poynt has proposed is that power delivered by a battery during closed circuit conditions delivers what he requires to be a negative wattage.  This is quite simply wrong.  And he relies on this distortion to then apply that same skewed logic to our own circuit analysis.  I'm obliged to CONFRONT it else everyone will be left with the ERRONEOUS impression that our experimental evidence DOES NOT EXCEED UNITY.  IT DOES.  Not only that.  But with this new 'convention' he will be able to deny over unity in just about every switched circuit - extant.  I'm not going to 'sit quiet' in the face of this abuse.

I have no idea whether you're interested in the prize that's on offer.  But you should be.  Not for the prize but for promoting the evidence of over unity.  That's what these forum are here for.  They've been dominated by an agenda to deny evidence.  And that has now escalated to the poynt where Poynty is proposing to UP END standard protocols rather than concede this evidence.  And I am personally rather irritated that I have never seen an analysis of your own test results that makes any kind of scientific sense.  It's all been SNARLED in undefined acronyms.  We need some clear analysis.

Regards,
Rosemary

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1007 on: February 06, 2012, 10:23:53 PM »
  I certainly agree with this, Rose:
OK, so we're focussing for now on the Input power of your device; that's fine.

I certainly agree with you here, Rose:
Quote
We need some clear analysis.

Regards,
Rosemary

  On the previous page, you refer to this "debate" with poynty, but I could not see the link to the debate.  In order to understand WHAT you are talking about, this "negative wattage" business, I should like to see the debate details -- Please provide the link. 
(Sorry to ask if you already provided it and I've missed it.)  Perhaps this discussion will enlighten Lawrence too -- all of us!


Magluvin

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1008 on: February 07, 2012, 02:03:59 AM »
Replaced, your in the wrong place.

If you think saying stuff like that is going to discourage, well your wrong.

Mags

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1009 on: February 07, 2012, 03:17:43 AM »
Dear Professor,

Regarding this question - so that we're on the same page so to speak, where you asked...
On the previous page, you refer to this "debate" with poynty, but I could not see the link to the debate.  In order to understand WHAT you are talking about, this "negative wattage" business, I should like to see the debate details -- Please provide the link.

And this in answer to my own question where I asked...
...And we would, all of us, like to know if you are endorsing Poynty Point's evaluation of the following circuit that the CORRECT MEASURE OF ENERGY IS AS HE CLAIMS 250 POSITIVE watts DISSIPATED BY THE LOAD and 250 NEGATIVE watts delivered by the battery supply?  SURELY NOT? 

Which in turn was detailed by Poynty Point in this post on my own thread...
You are getting close, however you're still struggling with the polarity.  Your own clue was that something is in anti-phase when comparing the battery and load, TRUE.  Explained in words, the power dissipated or supplied by any component (resistor OR battery) is the product of the voltage across it and the current through it.

Now, have a close look again at the diagram. The current is clockwise. Convention is that voltage "drops" across a load in the direction of the current (i.e. + to -).

Therefore both the current and voltage are "in-phase" when considering the load resistor. So we have:

PRLOAD = +V x +I = W (a POSITIVE polarity)

The battery however is a different story. By observation, one can see that the current and voltage are NOT "in-phase", therefore ONE of them MUST have a negative sign associated with it. Since the current has not changed direction, the negative sign must be assigned to the battery voltage, therefore:

PVBAT = -V x +I = -W (a NEGATIVE polarity)

So the answers to the question are:

a) Battery Power = -250W
b) RLOAD Power = 250W


Understood? Agreed?
THERE IT IS.  IN BLACK AND WHITE.  Actually.  I've taken the trouble to 'highlight' his argument in red.  ::)

Now here's the thing.  Here's where we find ourselves between the Devil and the deep blue sea - as they say.  Where we're skewered.  On the horns of a dilemma.  Trapped between a rock and a hard place.  You get the drift?  It's because your prize is 'hooked' somehow to Poynty's prize at OUR.com.  And Poynty Point has insisted that unless I and my collaborators FIRST commit the unpardonable HERESY of CONCEDING THAT THE BATTERY IN THE FOLLOWING SCHEMATIC IS DELIVERING A NEGATIVE WATTAGE?  :o:o8):-[   then he WON'T EVEN TALK TO US - LET ALONE CONSIDER OUR CLAIM FOR A PRIZE? 

NOT ONLY THAT - but he also reserves the right to USE that method as an alternate convention in analysing our tests.  :o   And you see for yourself?  It's a parody of logic.  An abuse of science as taught by our esteemed and revered.  A rebuttal of the logic forged by our Greats.  A challenge to and a criticism of the ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC FRATERNITY who require that convention determines the wattage delivered by the battery is POSITIVE. 

NOW.  IF indeed, he is allowed this rather, as I've described it 'QUIXOTIC' measurement's convention - then we will NEVER be able to argue that our results are OVER UNITY.  You see why I trust?  Because where we would NORMALLY compute a negative wattage, where even our little LeCroy Oscilloscope computes a negative wattage in measuring our test results - then - IN THE FLICK OF AN EYE - at the WAVE OF A WAND - Poynty Point will change our NEGATIVE WATTAGE MEASUREMENTS in our own experimental results TO POSITIVE.   :o Which means we'll have no gain at all.  Which is somewhat troubling.  And if you ENDORSE this 'convention' then you too would be able to deny us.  Which is not actually playing 'fair'.

Again.  Please comment.  I'll try and download that schematic again - lest we lose sight of where he's applying this utterly INSANE protocol.  And lest you think that my own delusions are that rampant that I've misconstrued his argument.

Kindest regards,
Rosemary
 

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1010 on: February 07, 2012, 03:58:05 AM »
And Professor,

Regarding that post of mine - you'll see that I've avoided mention of the science 'behind' the established protocol.  I could, I suppose, rabbit on about the fact that the direction of current flow is determined by the polarity of the applied voltage.  And I could also explain that the voltage induced across a load resistor is in anti phase with the potential difference from the supply.  But the truth is that I've argued this through 27 pages on my own thread where every mention of it was IGNORED.  And I'm rather concerned that should I try and argue those rather elementary facts - then they'll be ignored again.  So what I've done now - is SIMPLY present Poynt's argument - IF such it is - and I'll let you deal with it as best you can.  Possibly there's something that not only I, but the ENTIRE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY has overlooked.

And as Poynty Point has argued.  'Who cares?'  What does it matter?  What difference would it make if I merely argued science?  He's bound to be believed over any argument that I present -  because he's got 27 years of experience in electronics under his belt.  I've puzzled over that poynt of his - that 'justification'.  I'm not sure that it's entirely relevant.  You see.  What's at question has NOTHING to do with electronics and EVERYTHING to do with elementary power analysis.  And from where I sit - he needs to do a refresher course here.  Unless, of course, he's deliberately misleading us all.  Which I hope is NOT the case.

Again, regards, and as ever
Rosie 
edited - for clarity.

ltseung888

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1011 on: February 07, 2012, 03:32:00 PM »
Dear Prof. Jones,
 
I just received an email and the attached picture from Mr. Wang Shen He.  If you have no objections, I shall try to put him in contact with you directly.
 
Mr. Wang cannot speak English but he has colleagues who can translate the emails for him. 
 
It may be a good thing to have you or some famous Western Universities to do a verification of his inventions.
 
My gut feel is that China is already in possession of even more powerful technology and is willing to declassify some advanced technologies.
 
May be we should start a dedicated thread on his devices at an appropriate time.
 
More Divine Wine?

JouleSeeker

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1012 on: February 08, 2012, 12:55:53 AM »
  @Lawrence -- I would be pleased to correspond with Wang Shen He.  Thank you.
"May be we should start a dedicated thread on his devices at an appropriate time."  Yes, that would be a very good idea.

Likewise, Rose -- I think your work should follow your thread (not this one so much); if you would please tell me which thread would like me to go to to provide comments, I would appreciate it.

I see that Sterling Allan will travel to So Africa very soon to see an FE device; is it possible this is your device?  He does not say much detail about it.  It appears he is definitely flying to South Africa:

Quote
http://pesn.com/2012/02/07/9602034_Fund_Drive_for_S._Africa_Trip_to_See_New_Number_1_Free_Energy_Technology/
You are here: PureEnergySystems.com > News > February 7, 2012
Fund Drive for S. Africa Trip to See New #1 Free Energy Technology

Sterling Allan has been invited to South African to visit a company who claims to have developed a commercially-ready, solid-state, 5 kilowatt Fuel Free Generator that will be available as early as March for their existing customers. Sterling has also been offered to buy a system to test, with a money-back guarantee.

Shortcut to the Donation Link


by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News


A week ago today, I found an email in my inbox that had been sent to me on November 28 that I had overlooked. It was from a person representing a company in South Africa stating that they had a Fuel Free Generator, and that they had seven working prototypes with outputs ranging from 5.5 kilowatts to 60 kW. Included in the email were a couple of pdf documents: a FAQ and a brochure.

I responded with some questions and received quite a few answers.

The system is allegedly a solid-state (no moving parts) device that picks up energy from the environment (the "wheelwork of nature", as Tesla described it) while alternating power between two battery banks. And it would cost "less than grid power". From the best that I can understand, it is probably closest to the Bedini / Bearden type of technology.


The company's first 200 devices, each with a power output of 5 kW, are set to be completed in March, with customers already lined up; with a production rate of 200/month at first, ramping up to 500/month, but that's just for the S. African market. They are entertaining licensing to manufacture the technology elsewhere in the world as well. And they claim to have third party testing results.

"If this is for real, then we have a new #1 in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies listing," I've been saying.

I've written a couple of story drafts for their review, to let you all know about them; but the most recent reply came back that they don't want me speaking hypothetically, they want me to speak affirmatively. Instead of "this could be huge," they want me to be able to say, "This IS huge." So they invited me to come see for myself, and to buy a unit to test for myself, which they would refund if it didn't work as described.

    "We wish to invite you to our facility in South Africa to see, understand and test for yourself. This way you will report based on proven facts. Alternatively we could sell you a 5kW unit for testing purposes. If we do not prove our technology we will cover 100% of your travel and land arrangement costs. South Africa is a very beautiful and in-expensive country, and I suggest you visit. Remember we have many world firsts such as 1st human heart transplant (Dr Chris Barnard), Fuel from coal (Sasol), and now the FFG."

They don't have a website yet, and nothing has been written about them anywhere on the web other than my brief mention in yesterday's story about my recent interview on Late Night in the Midlands, where I talked about the technology.

Meanwhile, the company seems to be moving ahead at full steam. Not only do they have a receptionist (rare in the world of exotic free energy), but my contact even has an office secretary. I had to go through those two yesterday before talking to him.

The purpose of this present story is 1) to give you a heads up on this technology, and 2) to seek your help in pulling together the funds for this trip and purchase of a test unit.

I've been given permission to install one on the home we're renting so I can 1) prove this technology, and 2) demonstrate what I've been saying in various radio programs that 5 kW is adequate for a home if the occupants are careful about not turning on multiple high-power loads at the same time. ...

Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1013 on: February 08, 2012, 01:06:53 AM »
I think your work should follow your thread (not this one so much); if you would please tell me which thread would like me to go to to provide comments, I would appreciate it.

I see that Sterling Allan will travel to So Africa very soon to see an FE device; is it possible this is your device?  He does not say much detail about it.  It appears he is definitely flying to South Africa:
My Dear Professor,

You keep asking for this link and I keep giving it to you.  Here it is again.  And ... No.  Sadly that has NOTHING to do with me.  But WHAT EXCITEMENT.  I'll wait for the morning and see if I can learn more.

http://www.overunity.com/11675/another-small-breakthrough-on-our-nerd-technology/msg311961/#msg311961

ltseung888

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1014 on: February 08, 2012, 04:02:13 PM »
Dear Prof. Jones,
 
Do you think that you can provide the csv files for both Input and Output?  I can use EXCEL to do more analysis.  I believe you mentioned that the voltage of your battery hardly dropped after 9 hours.  Bill also mentioned that some of the batteries of his Joule Thief circuits lasted for months.
 
I also have FLEET prototypes that seem to have long battery lives.  One of them is showing negative mean (average) power on Input. 
 
My understanding on Power is that - positive power means power supplied by the source.  Negative Power means Power fed-back to the source.  If we have negative average Input Power, this implies that more power is fed-back to the battery.  This can explain the very long life of the battery.  An EXCEL analysis of the CSV files can confirm that.
 
My Atten Oscilloscopes have that capability under the save button.  Hope that it is not too much trouble for you.  Thank you in advance.
 
Lawrence

dimbulb

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1015 on: February 09, 2012, 01:01:47 AM »
Steven Jones,
If there is more out than in then a second and third stage and so on might
show evidence of an increase of useful energy.

If I have a AA batter with a 1000 ohm resistor and led in a conventional circuit
has a predictable amount of light.
When placed side by side with the Jones oscillator,
It is either brighter or it is not.

Lately phenomena that we are experiencing may follow Randell Mills theory.

Magluvin

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1016 on: February 09, 2012, 02:23:42 AM »
There is a difference in using dc for an led vs pulsing the led.

Leds can go into a higher output mode when pulsed.

Look into older laser diode tech

So comparing brightness is not a good gauge of power output when considering dc and pulsed circuitry for leds.

Some bicycle tail lights use the pulse circuitry to save on battery life and brighter output.

Mags

poynt99

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1017 on: February 09, 2012, 02:33:13 AM »
Mags,

When you say "pulsed", do you mean as in pulsed but still appearing continuously lit, or do you mean ON for half a second, OFF for half a second type thing?

Magluvin

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1018 on: February 09, 2012, 03:07:55 AM »
Mags,

When you say "pulsed", do you mean as in pulsed but still appearing continuously lit, or do you mean ON for half a second, OFF for half a second type thing?

Hey Poynt

Considering the freq of on and off in fiber optics, I dont believe there is much output that lingers when power is disconnected from an led. I would say it is off, no light output.

I bought a laser diode back around 1979, 8th grade. When looking for circuits to drive it, no internet then, I found a simple 1 trans circuit that required 65v input(7 9v batteries. The article explained the overdrive of pulsing.

I had later experimented with leds with this idea.
I used my old Color Computer from Radshack to simply operate a relay(to adjust the freq) with adjustable  12v in.

When you shine some leds(clear lens) on paper, at certain distances, you can see a clear view of the diode chip(square ;]) and even the tiny anode lead can be seen.

I dont remember the freq of operation but it wasnt that high due to relay properties. You know.

Anyways, as I increased the voltage in closer to 12v, when watching the chip image on the paper, you could see the 4 edges of the chip go into that overdrive mode. One side would go brighter then another and then all, as the voltage was increased.

All true.  ;]   all real.  ;]

Mags

Magluvin

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Re: PhysicsProf Steven E. Jones circuit shows 8x overunity ?
« Reply #1019 on: February 09, 2012, 03:19:08 AM »
White leds may have some lingering output after power off, due to the phosphorous overlaid on a blue or ultraviolet led chip.
I forget the term for the amount of time phosphorous can emit light after being excited.  Oh well, gettin old. ;]
 I also wonder if the phosphorous might glow even without the led chip being energized, during off cycle, by way of reverse HV from such devices as a Jt. Not sure there, but I wonder.  ;]

Mags