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Author Topic: Standing Waves in Generators  (Read 6747 times)

Offline xenomorphlabs

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2011, 04:53:27 PM »
The long wavelength that would not conveniently fit into the circuit length might actually only at first sight appear to be a hindrance for tapping the energy.
Read some studies on ELF wave transduction.

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2011, 04:53:27 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2011, 02:14:33 AM »
Made it through a couple hundred pages but a few things keep coming to mind, first is
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_optics#Optical_phase_conjugation

This is for light, but isn't light supposed to be a EM wave?  Are the currents in a bucking coil not traveling in equal and opposite directions coming out of the two leads? well when you think about them pointing at each other anyway.

The other is transients.  Transients can have many times more power manifest over a very short time period than the power that created them, it is a time change event, as in it takes time to build up the event and the event happens in much less time.  This could occur when you have multiple input waves hitting a common wire.

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2011, 02:14:33 AM »

Offline i_ron

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2011, 03:31:17 AM »
Sounds funny, forgive me but english is not my native language.
What would the expression "there's an awful lot of cat in that attempt" exactly indicate?


To me it could also be a reference to the Ivor Catt anomaly

http://www.ivorcatt.com/28anom.htm

Ron

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2011, 06:18:50 AM »

Well, thats certainly a read and a half...thanks for posting that up i_ron.

Regards...


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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2011, 06:18:50 AM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2011, 02:05:44 AM »
Catt or cat, either way things are getting somewhere, I just hope that it is where we want to go.

Delta (all coils series connected and closed) connected polyphase generators are an interesting setup, according to the book it is the circuit that decides which way the current flows.

A critically damped transient only gives one pulse, that conditions is when R= 2* (the square root of) L\C
or R squared\4L squared= 1\LC

Information overload, I think I have myself even more confused than normal, with that I have also been playing with the bifilar induced voltage while open ended.  In the very least case with this it shows that the wire is influenced by the magnetic field and that the interaction takes place whether or not the wire path is closed, so what makes the meter able to see the potential?? I think it is a shift in charge along the wire, longitudinal wave pushing charge carriers one way down the wire, and thinking about that, if you allow those charge carriers to leave the wire where does the wire replace them from?

I think the book I am looking for is from 1957 and would of been used as a Electrical Engineers study book from the U.K., I can not find that one.  I remember thinking how different the books were with just a few years between them, one just teaching how things can work the next explaining why the preferred methods are used and finally much later the books just teach that this is the only way it works.

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2012, 07:42:25 PM »
strange that this goes negative draw while running just right :)


The first pic is of the pulse motor I made years ago, found it over at my Parents house a little while ago and brought it home.


The second pic is with a few extra pieces added.

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2012, 07:42:25 PM »
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Offline plengo

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2012, 11:11:32 PM »
Excellent conversation fellas !

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2012, 11:11:32 PM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2012, 01:13:14 AM »
I was thinking about the "what" of the backing magnets and thought to use a coil instead to see if it showed anything interesting, then I thought about how much it might be able to generate and what kind of interference that would make, then I thought about using the back up coil to drive and see what the main coil would do,,, then I ran them in series and then added a cap and then reversed the wires going to the backup coil,,, not sure which way it is working compared to the main but when it gets running in the negative state the whole system gets a little gentle shake at speed and a very noticeable buck while trying to get it there.

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2012, 01:13:14 AM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2012, 06:34:18 AM »
it runs closed loop using a cap in place of the battery :)

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2012, 06:34:18 AM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2012, 07:09:27 AM »
having troubles with making this consistant :(

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2012, 07:09:27 AM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2012, 10:04:27 PM »

I was hoping that one of you electronics people could explain this to me in simple terms so that I may understand it.


The pic is of a simple Full Wave voltage doubler, easy enough and when I have it connected as in fig 1 and the part labeled "A" is connected, and run the system I get the anticipated stuff, the cap on the left shows battery voltage or a little above and the cap on the right keeps on climbing until I use it at which time it will go to zero, even if I hook it up to the battery, this I understand.


In fig 2 in the pic what I get is that both caps grow in voltage fairly fast, after about 30 seconds of run both caps are at 30 to 40 volts not just one, and they seem to get there faster than in what I am assuming is the conventional way of hooking them up.


The caps are rated at 14000mfd 30V, so I take 30 seconds of 12V 0.1A and charge both caps to 35V so that is about 7 joules or roughly 14 watt seconds of power so it is nothing overly interesting except that I am having a hard time figuring out WHY both caps charge up so much and that is without the common rail being used, or even if I use the common rail and install a cap.

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2012, 10:04:27 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2012, 03:32:50 PM »
....
In fig 2 in the pic what I get is that both caps grow in voltage fairly fast, after about 30 seconds of run both caps are at 30 to 40 volts not just one, and they seem to get there faster than in what I am assuming is the conventional way of hooking them up.

 The caps are rated at 14000mfd 30V, so I take 30 seconds of 12V 0.1A and charge both caps to 35V so that is about 7 joules or roughly 14 watt seconds of power so it is nothing overly interesting except that I am having a hard time figuring out WHY both caps charge up so much and that is without the common rail being used, or even if I use the common rail and install a cap.

 Hi webby1,
 
 In Fig 2, when you close then open the switch, the big voltage spike from the collapsing magnetic field would charge up BOTH capacitors via the right hand side diode because the two caps are in series from the spike current point of view.  When you open the switch the voltage spike has a polarity between the coil ends as follows: the coil end connected directly to the switch will be positive with respect to the other coil end (this latter is also the battery positive)  and current can flow via the right hand side diode and via the two caps and towards battery negative, to close the circuit for the voltage spike.  And in case part labeled A is still connected AND has a certain impedance or resistance, then the spike current can of course flow via part A towards the other coil end (which is connected to battery positive).  The higher the inner impedance or resistance of part A, the more energy can charge up the capacitors, in case part A is a dead short, then the left hand side cap is charged up to the battery voltage (from the battery because it is wired in parallel in that case) and the higher the inner resistance or impedance of part A, the more energy remains for charging the series caps.  In this latter case the battery also receives a certain (remaining) energy from the spike because it is included in the voltage spike closed circuit.
 
 Hope this helps?
 
 Gyula

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2012, 07:23:28 PM »

So I am just allowing myself to be confused by the left side diode, it is in fact not doing anything when hooked up as in fig2 and what I am left with then is a standard scavenge\spike suppression device, and in fact the cap becomes a 14000mfd 60V cap, I hate it when I miss the obvious.


Still, however, I have not had these particular caps fill up as fast as they do using just the flyback from coils.


Thanks :)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2012, 10:02:27 PM »
Hi,

A correction to your sentence: "...in fact the cap becomes a 14000mfd 60V cap,"

I would say: the cap becomes a 7000mfd 60V cap  (because two 14000mfd in series gives 7000mfd).  Agree?

And this explains why the charge up time quicker versus the case in your Fig 1.

Gyula

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2012, 10:02:27 PM »

Offline webby1

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Re: Standing Waves in Generators
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2012, 11:48:14 PM »
I suppose,, don't really know of the top of my head, I thought that in series the voltages add and in paralell the capacitance add, this is one of those pesky reasons I stay away from electronics :)


anyway it goes it charges up faster per cap to 40V than in fig1 charging up just one cap.


Maybe it is the use of the rotor disc for the pulsing that helps the charge, after all this is using the pulse motor.

 

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