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Author Topic: FIRST FREE ENERGY DEVICE REACHES MARKET IN OCTOBER -- The Game Changer is Here  (Read 124397 times)

Offline Gwandau

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Teslaalset,
 
I really hope you are right concerning the reason for AR to change supplier.
As long as his invention is still unknown to the majority, he is an easy target if measures are decided to be taken aginst him.
 
It all depends on the outcome of the decisions taken by the people responsible for the national security the moment they see the gravity of the situation.
 
Is his invention possible to incorporate seamlessly into the present monetary and social strucure, or is it a potential threat to stability?
 
If the latter alternative becomes obvious, he is out of business one way or the other, alive or dead.
That's why it is extremely important for anyone that succeeds in replicating this technique to get his/her findings out as open source.
 
This is a to big thing to mess around with for personal gain, and Andrea Rossi is playing a game with players far more resourceful than him.
 
Why even bother about money, this invention will in the long run make money completely useless!
 
Gwandau

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Offline teslaalset

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I believe it's already too late to control the introduction of LENR products in the market soon by politics.
There are already too much details known.
Besides, Rossi hinted already of his technology being available open source on medium term (his interview on Jan 14th this year).

In general US citizens are paranoid thinking that the government and military can control all of this.
If Rossi will be too much hindered in the US he will move to Europe or worst case to Africa where regulations and control are a bit less tight.
In my view this can't be controlled worldwide, regulations will always be slow, while Rossi will launch within this year or early next year.

It's kind of lucky Rossi is producing in the US and Defkalion in Europe. That makes the chance that all of this will be suppressed or too much controlled slim.
Once a few products are in the market, it will be very soon replicated and the essence will be openly available.
Times are changed, one publication on the internet and secrets are out.

I agree that if LENR product will be rolled out soon and with large quantities this could cause some political instability.
But a huge transition will not happen within one year, it will happen over 15 - 20 years.

Free Energy - Freie Energie - energia libre - OverUnity.com


Offline chessnyt

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@Teslaalset:
I agree with almost everything you just posted.  A view that further encapsulates mine is found at the following link:
 
http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/the-emergence-of-lenr-and-its-predictable-effect-on-the-economy/
 
Here's an excerpt from the above mentioned link:
 
"To summarize, in my opinion the best way to estimate how the emergence of LENR onto the market place will effect our economy is to look at the know effects of higher oil prices. Take for instance the current spike in oil prices: just when companies have finally stepped up hiring, rising oil prices are threatening to halt the U.S. economy’s gains. On the other hand, LENR will predictably lower energy prices, amplifying U.S. economic gains.
Cheaper products, more jobs, more money to spend – WOW! The positive feedback effects could mean geometric economic expansion. The future will be so bright, we’ll have to wear shades!"
 
 
Cheers,
 
Chess

Offline teslaalset

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Earlier I indicated that I expect a similar boost to global economies will happen compared to what internet brought us.
There is one exeption in the comparison however: In Europe in particular a huge amount of tax is raised on fossile fuels (e.g. in my country the tax percentage on petrol is approx. 85%).
In general this means governments will get less tax income from taxed energy sources if LENR becomes main stream.
And taxing LENR based energy sources can not be justified, since there is no harmfull waste like CO2.

This means that other (existing) tax rates will be raised to compensate losses in tax income of governments.
In Europe discussions are onging to change the tax system such that in particular an increased tax will be raised on goods.
Resources are becoming more scarce, or get hijacked (look at what e.g. China is doing).

But in general, people will benifit until the LENR roll-out has matured.
More jobs, cheaper products (in the early phase of the LENR age), more areas to build houses in colder climates because of more affordable heating, larger areas of agriculture (greenhouses) etc.
Lot's of new R&D efforts and eager investors.

First economic analysis on the effect of LENR are appearing on the internet:
http://coldfusionnow.org/?p=14094
(too optimistic in my view)

Free Energy - Freie Energie - energia libre - OverUnity.com


Offline gravityblock

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I'd like to suggest people take their theorizing about how these devices might work to another thread, and leave this one to serve its original purpose as a venue for relaying news about the bringing of these devices to market.
No disrespect intended towards any of the proponents of any of the conflicting theories, but when you start arguing and insulting each other that itself is showing disrespect to everyone else who has to witness it.  If it's that important to you, take it outside as it were and start another thread that others don't have to see if they don't want to. 

I don't think there's any harm in posting links here to theoretical information on other threads or websites that others can follow if they're interested, but this thread in the news section isn't the place for debating or arguing or trying to educate others about the theoretical science behind how the subject of this news thread works.

Thanks for your consideration.   

As you wish.  I'll keep quite then, but I would like to add, what I proposed isn't based on a theory.  What I'm saying is an inarguable fact.  You'll all see soon enough.  Also, I won't be starting a dedicated thread to discuss how to successfully build a LENR.  Why?  Because it will fall on deaf ears like it did in this thread.  I won't be wasting any more of your time or my time.

Take care,

Gravock

Offline Gwandau

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@teslaalset and chessnyt

"Cold Fusion Now" depicts a wonderful future of smooth transition and altruistic behaviour from the energy cartel.

In my opinion this is utterly childish. Much lesser threats to the energy cartel have resulted in a sad story for the opponent.
 
I don´t think LENR is on safe ground yet. They are actually far from safety, and by succumbing to greed and keeping it all secret
they are actually making it quite easy for the guys that they are threatening.

Nobody besides AR and Defkalion has been able to create LENR with same energy efficiency.
 
NOBODY.
 
And it took Andrea Rossi 18 years of research to get to the point he is today.
What the rest of us besides Defkalion know today about the e-cat is just about as much as they knew about the Nickel-hydrogen phenomenon in the 90's.
The whole LENR movement is still only known by a very limited number of people, far from the main stream media, and most of us I believe will be easily misled if AR and D-K are effectively discredited.

It's a piece of cake for the energy cartel to put an end to it all. There is an abundance of means to put an end to the progress.

It's not about being positive or negative, it's just how the world is.
Do you really believe we are living in a fair world with a fair chance for everyone to succeed?
Not until it is all open source we are a little more on the safe side.
 

I don't really understand how anyone can miss the following alarm signals:

1.  Andrea Rossis only MW buyer is a shady Anonymous who has ordered every unit available, thus securing all production into 
     one single direction.

 
2.  The choice to change supplier from National Instruments to a Anonymous supplier was not the choice of Andrea Rossi.
     It was the choise of the buyer.

     Don't you see what I see?

3.  As a result of this move by the Anonymous buyer also the electronic supplier to the domestic e-cats has been put behind the   
     curtain.

4.  And even worse is the conclusion:  Everything seems to become deliberately associated with the Anonymous buyer.
 
     Andrea Rossi is slowly loosing his footing.    Quoting the "E-cat World" February 19 :

     From what Rossi says here it appears that he no longer is the sole decision maker in the development and commercialization 
     of the E-Cat  - the ‘Trust to which Leonardo Corporation now belongs’ is making decisions which possibly may be overriding
     Rossi's own ideas.  /end of quote
 
    There ARE two alternatives here, nobody can deny that:

1. Andrea Rossi is in good hands, the Anonymous buyer is a reliable group of people, charing the revolutionary path of LENR.
2. Andrea Rossi is unknowingly subjected to an organization created with one goal, to stop public access to this technology.
 
Hope I am wrong and you are right
 
Gwandau

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Offline teslaalset

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Gwandau,
I understand your concerns, but I have a bit of a different view on them.
There are two parties you mentioned:
- The first 1MW unit buyer
- The investors in Leonardo Corperation

The fact that the first 1MW buyer wants to remain anonymous is understandable in my view.
He's investing 1M$ in something that was (and maybe still is) highly speculative.
- His reputation maybe at stake as an investor in case Rossi's claims are far from the real situation.
- There maybe opponents that want to frustrate his willingness to stick out his neck to invest in LERN.
These are two quite understandable reasons to remain anonymous at this stage.

With respect to Leonardo Corp, Rossi is in a nasty situation:
Severe competition is around (Defkalion) and Rossi needs to keep the paste to enter the market with large volumes to get some money back that he personally invested.
If he wants to do this on his own, he's simply not able to ramp up that paste, because setting up a factory requires serious amounts of money.
So, its either choose to do this all with small money and have a slow market introduction, or do this the way he's planning it, with some investors and loose some control of it all.

I am sure Rossi has a legal advisor and made sure he's still having > 50% of the ownership of Leonardo Corp.
There must be hundreds of investors willing to invest, so Rossi can just pick the ones that are willing to work with him under minority share.

It's good to see some difference in optimism and opinions.

Free Energy - Freie Energie - energia libre - OverUnity.com


Offline teslaalset

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Some more on NI<>Leonardo Corp.:
http://e-catsite.com/2012/02/21/ni-corroborates-rossi-statements/

My personal view is that Defkalion seems to perfectly cope without the help of NI.
Rossi obtained the help of NI in the initial phase of defining a good control mechanism for his LENR process.
For the mass production obviously cheeper solutions are available.
So, I see the cooperation with NI as a one off consultancy deal that has been completed.
It was never stated anywhere that NI components would be used in the final products.

Free Energy - Freie Energie - energia libre - OverUnity.com


Offline teslaalset

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An interesting view on the scenario of introducing LENR to the world by Dave Cline:
https://plus.google.com/113163888439328035664/posts/8fYj9X1qW88



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Offline e2matrix

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Good articles teslaalset.   Nice to see National Instruments validated their work with Rossi and that they expressed interest in the value of his technology.  Cline's article was fun to read too - rather hilarious at times but possibly the way a lot of things could happen. 

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Offline teslaalset

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An excellent analysis of measurements on steam, related to the COP calculations on the e-cat experiments:
http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_steam_frames_v410H.php

It's hard to conclude whether the public e-cat steam analysis are correct or not, but in my view enough room for Rossi to be correct.

Free Energy - Freie Energie - energia libre - OverUnity.com


Offline Gwandau

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teslaalset,
 
thanks for the steam analysis link, very valuable, and thanks for respecting my worried opinions.

I soo want to jump onto the shiny optimistic wagon and I hate being the negative nagging old crone here,
but the impact of history won't leave me at rest.
 
I agree on every point about the good reasons for Andrea Rossi's choice to go along with the changes demanded by the Anonymous buyer.
At the same time this may be exactly what a potential opponent want us to think.
 
In any case, I have vented my worries, and now I want to join the happy guys. :) :D ;D
No more nagging from me from now on.
 

Gwandau

Offline chessnyt

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@Everyone:
Can you imagine what the people with other alternative energy breakthroughs (outside of LENR technology) are going through right now?  Try to imagine those who thought they were going to peddle their wares to the oil cartels in exchange for a huge payout.  Now, more than ever before, we just may have a chance to see a host of other alternative or free energy technologies that otherwise would never have seen the light of day thanks to LENR.  After all, what good would it do the oil cartels to buy up any more threatening energy technologies when LENR is enough to topple their entire kingdom (industry). 
 
I agree with everyone who believes that Rossi is trying to get paid.  Of course he is and rightfully so.  Everyone should recall an inventor of Rossi's caliber (actually, I think he was beyond Rossi's calibre as he not only gave us A/C electricity, but he also gave us the the A/C motor, wireless transmissions or radio and many more breakthrough inventions/discoveries we still use to this day).  I just thank God he didn't rush to the oil cartels with it to be bought out and suppressed for another 20 years.
 
Now certainly Tesla died a multi-billionaire, right?  Of course not.  He died a broke lonely old man living in a run down hotel for a home.  Such a pitiful demise for a man who was responsible for bringing multiple world changing technological discoveries to mankind.  Certainly, Rossi does not want to suffer a similar fate. 
 
Concerning Rossi's competition; Defkalion needs to make up for Rossi's lead in making it to the market first.  Rossi's corporation already made its first commercial sale as of October of last year.  Now that Rossi is preparing to mass produce his products, Defkalion is yet to even offer one product for even a commercial interest/buyer.  This shows how obviously behind they are compared to Rossi (their #1 competitor). 
 
Defkalion's latest move to allow their product to be tested publicly (and thoroughly) will lend them some inexpensive exposure and free advertising.  Live demonstrations of any product beats a picture in a news article hands down every time. 
 
Also, Defkalion's willingness to allow the experts to verify their technology may give their company the lions share (pun intended) of real in-depth mainstream news coverage and not just the scraps that Rossi has been afforded by them.
 
Rossi may be closer to the store shelf but Defkalion could end up being more widely known and trusted.  If they delay their scheduled upcoming testing, on the other hand, they will be finished and not in a good way.
 

Regards,
 
Chess
 

Offline chessnyt

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@Everyone:
Rossi gave another rare interview this afternoon with a Mr. Frank Acland.  A host of various topics were discussed clearing up some of the concerns poorly addressed until now.  In this interview (on 2/25/2012), the topics covered were as follows:
 
o  The Investor’s Trust
o  1 MW E-Cat Plant
o  Electrical Production (from steam temperature of 251 degrees C)
o  National Instruments
o  Domestic E-Cats
o  Competition
o  U.L. Certification
o  Patents
o  Rossi’s Health
 
Here are just a few excerpts from the article arising out of today's interview:
 
"The final size of these units will be 12 x 12 x 4 inches, and the weight will be 20 lb. A special synthetic insulating material surrounds each reactor to ensure maximum efficiency. There will not be any pictures of the unit released until the fall when he starts accepting orders.
 
Rossi emphasized that the 10 kW units are designed to be added on to existing heating systems, not to replace them. It will be an appendage that can be used to provide heat to whatever system already exists in homes, allowing users to save on their current sources of fuel. The heat output of these units will be between 40 and 80 degrees C. They will be able to provide home heat and hot water. These units will have fully automatic controls — the customer is not able to modify its operations; Rossi said a COP of 6 is guaranteed.
 
The units will cost between $600 and $900 per unit, a price that he feels will discourage anyone from going into competition with similar units that are based on reverse engineering of his products. Production is not planned outside the US because the small size of these units makes it fairly efficient to ship all over the world. Customs and shipping costs could make these units up to 20 percent more expensive outside the US."
 
The full article can be found at the following link:
 
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/02/rossi-siemens-ag-helping-with-leonardo-corp-with-efficient-electricity-generation/
 
It appears that Rossi is starting to realize that you must be a "people person" if you intend to do well in a position as CEO in any corporation.  Apparently to me, it looks as though Defkalion may have lit a new fire under Rossi's temperament and public relations. 
 
 
To an exciting and bright new future,
 
Chess

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Offline Poit

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why would you have it as an addon unit to your exisiting hot water to save on fuel when its cop 6? i would think that instead of saving a bit of a money people would be more interested in saving a lot of money and having the e-cat as the primary (not secondary) source of hot water

 

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