Author Topic: Bessler's En Principia (Read 82766 times)

johnny874 · « **on:** April 20, 2012, 10:00:35 PM »

A few years ago in the other forum, someone asked the question, if you could ask Bessler one question, What Would It Be ?
Myself, my question would have been, Mr. Bessler, can I demonstrate your principle ?
And this I will do in a couple of weeks. One thing I have learned is that if something works one time, it can be repeated.
I learned this when I took classes on CATIA. It's a 3 dimensional engineering design program. Make one of something, store it in the library and then that one item can be repeated quite easily many times over. And this simple example works as well for Bessel's En Principe.
As is known, Mr. Bessler did use 8 weights. This means that only one section needs to be demonstrated to demonstrate his claims are valid. After all, the principle can be repeated which is why it is of a perpetual nature by design.
As for myself, I have had a life without this if you call going to the Carribean or to Russia a life. It is when I planned on going to the Ukraine that other people got tired of me doing things. Why ? I guess that goes back to my hearing loss and judging a book by it's cover. And as my father once told me, if ever I need a mission in life. What he missed was that I already had one, one that people would soon look past. And that is that a hearing loss has nothing to do with a person's intelligence. Even he missed that one.
After I demonstrate Mr. Bessel's wheel ? I am not so sure about this. It does seem it is important where one's own interest lies, in being able to demonstrate his wheel and to know a little of what he knew and experienced or is it something else ?
I have heard so far that the potential reward of possibly millions of dollars is what people are after. Maybe this could explain how they missed it, they were looking for the wrong thing. It is better to have a life you can enjoy. And as for me, if the demonstration proves what I believe it will, I still plan on going back to my life. Of course, this might also mean one more surgery. If so, it will be nice to go about my own life dealing with the effects of other people's negligence. As always, working past things and even learning to understand something like Bessler's wheel(s) does take work

johnny874 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 25, 2012, 07:52:55 PM »

One interesting aspect of perpetual motion that people often miss is that inertia consumes as much energy as that which creates it.
A good design would cancel out inertia. Many of Bessler's drawings show potential for this using solid weights. His drawings in the 30's showing opposing weights shifting together. By doing so, the weight moving outward cancels out the inertia of the weight moving inward.
With Mt 31, when the top 2 levers are moving upward, they cancel out the inertia acting on the 2 lower levers. http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Mt_031.gif
By doing so, then the force of the long levers is what would be important. Also, the 2 long levers would counter balance each other to help maintain the over all balance of the wheel. Other wise, the shifting of the short levers might not generate enough over balance to over come the imbalance of the long levers.
With Bessler's working wheel, such thoughts also need to be considered. If the levers performing the work are in a balance, then they would not take away from the over balance allowed for by using his special weight. This could be where the term free energy would apply. The energy is free because it comes about from a balanced motion that maintains an imbalance and in that, there is a balance

Jim

johnny874 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2012, 12:29:39 AM »

The concept of free enrgy has always been an abstract thought.
With Bessler, it took form. A mathematical expression, one which I
have previously posted is stated as 8ma/ma=l of which l is angular
momentum or rotation of the wheel and it's abiltiy to accelerate.
Another way to state this might be -4ma - 4ma / ma = l
That is to say the acceleration and resitence of opposing sides cancel
each other leaving the acceleration potential of the over balance.
Myself, I prefer net force which is 9m + w / ob = a
That is to say, the 8 weights plus the special weight plus the weight
of the wheel divided by the over balance the special weight generates. This
value should opproxinate the rate of acceleration. Of course, a wheel powered
by gravity most likely will not be able to rotate faster than 9.8 m/s/s or about
32 feet per second.
Are these things Bessler was aware of ? Probably not.
Of course, we can always speculate about what he saw in nature. because of the
numerous times he references "stork's bill", I suggest the attached picture. It is of
a stork that he might have seen. They prefer a water type habitat and are also
found in Germany where he did live.
What everyone might miss is what happens when the bill opens and closes.
With the type of build I am doing, they act as a pump. And it could be observing
this animal in nature which inspired Bessler.

Jim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Stork

edited to add; the 2 white storks shown are in Germany. Also, if you click on the
picture, you will see this message;
You are free:

to share â€“ to copy, distribute and transmit the work
Needless to say, there is someone in here that believes they are an authorized
agent of the U.S. Government to enforce copyrights of any nature (notice the spin/pun on nature?)

johnny874 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2012, 07:13:01 PM »

@All,
I think I'll stick with Bessler's work. As it is, converting gravity into
mechanical energy requires understanding mechanical engineering. I believe
Bessler well understood this.
An example is Mt 60, it has screw threads and what seems like bellows. This
quote from Mt 24 better suits Mt 60 which is essiantly the same concept.
"No. 24: This invention ought not to be scorned. It consists of separate levers with weights. Between the weights are small iron poles with screw threads. The poles fall inward when the levers close. There is something one must learn first before one can grasp and correctly understand the good quality of the invention."- Johann Bessler What I think also has been missed in what seems to be bellows. And as one closes, it pumps. The inverse is also true, as one opens, it creates a vacuum drawing into it air or liguid, depending upon what the purpose of the tool is being used for.
What screws are mindful of is the Archimedes pump which he made a drawing of. He consistently shows an understanding of pumps. Something used in hydraulics all the time.
Of course, it would be possible to use a worm gear and shift the weights which are iron rods that have threads. And the levered weights are the motive force that operates them.
Still, when compared to Mt 24, it seems that Mt 24 most resembles bellows that work with the opposing unit. As such, in mechanical engineering, and in Bessler's drawings, he may be trying to convey principles in engineering necessary to understand his work. Essiantly studying his drawings would be similar to taking a course in Perpetual Engineering.

Jim

If you happen to notice "B" in Mt 60, it's hinged. And next to it ? This is where I think the iron poles with screw threads are meant to show a shift in balance when the weighted levers move. After all, there seems to be no place for the iron poles to fall into.
And one last thing to consider, in 300 years, no one has noticed that the quote in Mt 24 goes with Mt 60. could be Bessler's way of seeing who's paying attention and who isn't.

johnny874 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2012, 10:46:13 PM »

@All,
Here is a picture of a basic pump set up. It was a quick build
and probably shows it.
I will need to move the bar the long lever lands on. Also, I'll
need to make the tubing to hold the water which will need to split into
2 sections to go around the lever mount.
I'm okay with this as even this simple set up will help me to better
understand how to build one for a wheel. Gotta learn some time.
It could be as early as this weekend. And what will this demonstrate ?
A couple of different things. After all, a 1 pound weight should be able
to easily pump 1 1/4 pounds of water and do it with force.
This would also be hydraulics in it's simplest form. And something I
believe is essential to understanding Bessler's work. When i have it finished,
I will post a video showing how it works.

Jim

keep forgetting the attachments

johnny874 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 15, 2012, 05:13:21 PM »

@All,
One of the failures of over balanced wheels is that as has been shown, using levers doesn't work per se.
This simply means that if a weight falls towards center it does not create an under balance because of the
opposing levers behavior. I think Bessler realized this. If you look at his drawings, he did give levers
some thought as to how an under v/ over balance might be achieved.
And this would be one of the coolest things he realized about using a fluid. For it to be pumped, it would
have to have less potential than the lever acting on it. Basically, if a lever can generate 5 lbs. or kg's of
force, the fluid would need to weigh less. An example of this is if 1 lb. or kg. of fluid were pumped using
5 lbs. or kg's of force, it would shoot out of the pump. Think a garden hose here.
And what all of this would mean is that as the wheel rotates, the fluid would continually keep being pumped.
And with the levers on the wheel being counter balanced with each other, it would be interesting to find out
how much fluid it would take to rotate a balanced wheel.

edited to add;
might try building an actual 1/4 section of the wheel. It would be 2 pump sections to demonstrate the basic principle.

johnny874 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2012, 05:21:01 PM »

@All,
Silver Tiger over at bw dot com asked me about having 2 or 4 wheels working together producing power.
What I think might be possible is that a single 12 foot wheel could develop 25 amps of power at 120 volts. This would be a 12 ft. wheel with 2 1/2 inches of depth in the channel.
One thing I do believe would happen with a basic wheel working is that what ever museum they would want it for would probably want some of his other designs built. This is something that was done with Da Vinci.
One thing I have been criticized for while working on Bessler's wheel is my having tunnel vision. I think of it as staying focused myself. The same person who criticized me for that also criticized me for my use of math. It was my constant use of math and having learned from what I had built that got me looking at Bessler's drawings for a design that had the potential for a lot of over balance. Mt 67 shows more over balance than anyone should consider. And Mt 66 shows how it might be pumped (to give someone a basic idea).1/2 of the wheel is over balanced. In a real wheel, this wouldn't happen but it was obvious that bellows could provide the answer because they would pump water around the outside of a wheel like a water wheel in a stream flows over the top of the water wheel causing it to rotate. I do believe this is what Bessler saw in nature that inspired him, a water mill which was used to thresh grain into flour the same as a windmill.

Jim

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_61-80#MT_066

johnny874 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:20:32 AM »

@All,
Found out a friend of mine just got a table saw. He hasn,t done wood working before.
I told him he just became my new best frienc and that I will need to get him interested in Bessler

Jim

johnny874 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2012, 03:13:30 AM »

Have decided to use knerf boards to form the radii.
Will be using .125 thin plywood as laminate.
Will be able to use .010 laminate to improve appearance.
Am thinking 30 in. or 75cm dia.

Jim

johnny874 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2012, 04:37:19 PM »

Will probably start building today.
I have let Stefan know that when I am finished, i would like to send it to him.
I do expect it to work but being the first prototype, it might not. And with a model
that can show the mechanics, the necessary relationships might not be understood
as to how force and leverage can work together to allow such a design to work.
This is where studying math would make a difference. It is as much as when to
apply leverage as it is in knowing leverage allows for an amplification of force.
Because of this, I will try to make the levers easily removeable so that trying
different ratios of leverage and different lengths of levers might be tried.

Jim

johnny874 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 30, 2012, 09:37:20 PM »

@All,
With the first build, if it works as I hope, it will not be perpetual but would run for a while.
I am making a fixture to warp boards with. I'm not sure if my dremel will do a clean enough
radius for something like this. If not, then over the next couple of weeks, I'll be prepping parts
that I'll make later on. You know, start prepping the spokes and hub.
The wheel will be 30 inches/75 cm's in diameter and will use about 1 lb./450 grams of water.
I may go slightly heavier as I would like to demonstrate the plausability of Bessler having been
capable of doing the same thing 300 years ago. To this end, I'll probably make a tube out of leather,
I think that would make it fairly authentic. And bessler did use bearings, he said as much. He made
them out of sulphur, salt and mercury. When mixed together, the mercury hardens like silver fillings
and can be polished smooth. And with a lubricant, they would allow his wheel to roll quite e4asily.
In his Poetica Apologia, he said without salt, sulphur and mercury, his wheel would not work.

Jim

edited to add; will try to work off line from now on. between here and besslerwheel, the forums seem to have died.
Here is a response I got from someone with a Ph.D., Re: fluid perpetual mochine 1 recipients CC: recipientsYou More BCC: recipientsYou Show Details FROM:

David Naylor

TO:

James Lindgaard

Message flagged Sunday, July 29, 2012 4:05 PM James

Sorry for the slow reply...I was away on vacation.

Wow, that looks complicated. It might just work. I think you'd better build a prototype!

PMMs are always a lot of fun, and a bit of a passion for me.

Thanks for the message.

David David Naylor, Ph.D., P.Eng., FCSME
Professor
Dept. of Mechanical & Industrial Engineering,
Ryerson University, And if you guys look at what's posted in the thread, zzzzzzzzzzz's.

johnny874 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2012, 11:18:54 PM »

Will leave you guys with this link.
It explains in my opinion what Bessler had invented
and wrote about. I reference his writings and drawings.

http://besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5365

edited to add; it is with these words from Johann Bessler that I started the first post.

From Apologia Poetica - Should anyone wish to speculate about the truth,
let him ponder the rich pageant of words

From Maschinen Tractate - however, taking various illustrations together and combining them with a discerning mind, it will indeed be possible to look for a movement and, finally to find one in them.

johnny874 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2012, 09:35:45 PM »

@All,
This is the Bessler build I have been pursuing. The initial work I'll need to do is to build a board warping fixture. I have decided to use 5.2 mm thick plywood and radius sections as I stack the warping fixture higher. It will need to be between 4 and 5 inches wide/tall.
It may only be a 20 in. dia. wheel. If so, it will demonstrate the mechanics I believe Bessler used.
Simply put, I believe Bessler used 8 pumps that worked sequentially, as one pumped, the pump following was primed. And of course, the imbalance the water creates causes the wheel to rotate causing the water to pump which of course, would prime the next pump and so on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOl2dJaavS8

edited to add; the wheel would have 8 sections that pump. And a quote from Bessler's Poetica Apologia, "All things belong to one of three kingdoms and you have the evidence before you.
Without such things as sulfur, salt, and mercury, all things will come to a standstill.
The qualities of the elements are necessary to keep things going. "
That's how you make bearings. If silver is used with mercury, you would have amalgam or silver fillings.

johnny874 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 24, 2012, 12:32:58 AM »

@All,
will be building this off line. I already have the thin plywood which I'll use for the warped boards and about everything else will be made out of plywood.
Still, I know most of the regular crowd come here for good posting and not to actually work at something. Sorry about ruining for those that are only here
because they have no where else to be to hang out with someone.
But then, this is a serious effort. One reason why a certain well respected member of this forum considers me a fraud. He doesn't believe Bessler built a wheel.
It seems at besslerwheel dot com, most members there do not support perpetual motion as being possible but say they support Bessler's claims. Seems to be a lot of that in these forums. I think it's possible but not that way. An easy way to play it safe.
then again, might be just as well off to build my continuously flowing water and make money off of that. Of course, that's using the potential of a static head to perform work using gravity. It's about all the work such a free energy device can generate. After all, if not for gravity's effect and leverage being able to be used, it couldn't possibly work.

johnny874 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 24, 2012, 04:31:39 PM »

@All,
Will leave you all with this thought,
if water is filling the bellows on the right side, how could you keep it moving upwards while the wheel rotates ?
that is a lot of over balance.

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Author Topic: Bessler's En Principia (Read 82766 times)

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