Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2334808 times)

Doug1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1560 on: September 13, 2014, 03:59:25 PM »
Had an idea for materials this past week. Found a source of large starter motors for diesel engines. They starters are 5kw 4 pole big 25 or 30 lbs units being scrapped so I arranged to remove the stator blocks and windings which are held on with bolts.It's already good quality magnet metal all of the leads are big fat strap copper.Stacking them like pancakes and running bolts through the existing threaded holes should save a lot of work.Also snagged three big monster size alternators 200 amp 28 volt beasts with external regulators that convert the out put to 12 24 48 volt.
 Im hopeful the starter motor core blocks work out well since they are a replaceable part that comes already wound. It would be really nice if off the shelf parts could be modified a little bit or configured differently to reach the same goal. I dont expect them to handle any more the 1200 watts for any lengthy amount of time since they are made for momentary use to start a engine.

Doug1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1561 on: September 14, 2014, 02:52:27 PM »
Broke a few tools trying to separate these core blocks from the housing. They are glued with locktite of some form.With flush torx screws that will not allow a penetrating fluid to break down the glue so off to the oven to warm them up and hopefully that will allow the glue to soften enough to get them apart. Placed a neo magnet on the core blocks and it is harder to get the magnet off then on some of the other types of cores I had laying around. In re examining some generators/alternators I noticed the rotors are solid and stators are layered. the reasoning for the layered stators is to reduce eddy currents and wasted heating on the output side so why is it not used on the input side or the inducer magnet of a gen? Motors use layered rotors and layered stators while generators use solid rotors and layered stators. At least that is the case with smaller machines, not sure about magawatt generators since I don't have one of those. Ever since 9/11 you cant even get close to one of the power plants.

bajac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1562 on: September 14, 2014, 03:13:24 PM »
Doug,


The generator rotor does not have to be laminated because its magnetic field is constant and does not move within the rotor iron part. The polarity and magnitude of the magnetic field within the rotor does not change. However, it does move (changing alternating magnetic field) in the stator iron core at the speed of the rotor RPM. Notice that for a complete rotation, each coil of the stator sees the north and south poles of the rotor magnetic field. This effect induces Eddy current and generates hysteresis losses in the stator iron core.


Bajac

Doug1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1563 on: September 14, 2014, 08:48:26 PM »
So would it not stand to reason the inducer magnets would be solid and the induced would possibly be laminated?The rise and fall of current in the inducer creating a changing intensity of the mutual induced output coil. The eddy currents will happen where the induced happens,in the Y coil. Using laminated cores for the magnets may not nessesarily provide the strongest magnetic field on the pole face compared to it's ability to store the field . The only thing being removed is the motion of the rotor.It seems reasonable for it/them to still to have a very strong field projecting toward the Y coil and it's core.
 Consider the field is normally thought of as lines which may be just a two demensional view point and they may actually be cylindrical in reality.Then several layers of cyndrical field would cross the laminates twice each. Being of thinner mass each layer in the induced it may be each layer can reach saturation easier.Like working with batteries you can have voltages add together or amperage depending on how connect them.
 I know my communication skills suck and picture is worth a thousand words but I think you can draw a bulls eye and then draw straight lines up down or sideways over the bulls eye and then view what Im talking about.

hanon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1564 on: September 15, 2014, 01:03:56 AM »
Hi all,

This is my new assembly. I hope to start doing tests soon. As soon as time let me do it. I have used 3 MOT (microwave oven transformers) to get the coils and steel. I have not took out the secondary coils from the MOTs because I am not very handy and I could spoil the primary coils. The secondary coil are wrapped with white paper but they are disconnected, so I hope those coils won´t do any bad there. My assembly is composed of two inducers coils and one intermediate induced coil. All three coils are in line in order to swing back and forth the magnetic fields along the intermediate coil.

One question: What capacity do I need in a condenser to unphase by around 90º a signal of 12 volt and 2 or 3 amperes?  I do not know how to calculate it. Will I get an unphased signal in the intensity or in the voltage?

Regards

bajac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1565 on: September 15, 2014, 02:45:14 AM »
Hanon,
Could you post a diagram of the device you are trying to construct? From the picture, I cannot relate the apparatus to the Figuera's devices of 1902 or 1908.
On the other hand, before I start working on my second Figuera's 1908 device, I will run some more test for the device I built a few months ago. Until know, I have being testing the device with a minimum air gap but looking at Figuera's patent drawing it is noted that the air gaps are shown relatively big. For this option, I will need to induce a larger magnetic field in the primary coils by increasing the current. It does not make sense to me, but what the heck, I will follow the whatever hints I can observe from the 1908 patent.
I have also discovered from a practical point of view how a magnetic field flowing in the same direction is able to self-induce voltages of different polarities within the same coil. When I have the time, I will start putting together a draft version of the narratives and sketches explaining this interesting event, which I have never seen in any engineering books or literature. I think we need to decipher first how the magnetic circuits really work in the real world. Not just from formulas and mathematical concepts which do not always show the real picture.
Thank you,
Bajac

marathonman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 860
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1566 on: September 15, 2014, 09:21:50 AM »
Doug, you are correct the primary cores are one way and the secondary are bi way so your assessment is correct. just make sure your secondaries are non Grain orientated laminates. I want to thank you for you contribution to this thread.
Hanon, is does not mater what size of cap it will unphase both as i understand it. it does not change intensity or voltage just offsets by 90%. just make sure the cap can handle the voltage and the capacity can handle the amp draw by double. it is good to see your work, progress is awesome and your contribution is highly regarded and appreciated.

Bajac, i have constructed circuits for both types of Drive for the Flynn type set up. one is by 555 timing and the other is by slotted disc. if any one wants the circuit just drop me a dime and i will send it to whom ever wants it with bom. both are shown without copper pour for clarity and are over constructed for Longevity. the circuit is for two drive pairs but one can only use what he or she wants except for the 555 circuit it has 4 but i can change for two if needed. the Patent shows only two drive mags but i figured it can be constructed for half of Stator mags. ie. if you have 8 Stator mags then the Rotor Mags can be 4. i have designed one for 16 Stator mags and 8 Rotor Mags that will turn big Generator head.
 thank you for your contribution....your insites are highly regarded and appreciated.

 tomorrow i will be homeless so i will get to it when i can. had big yard sale so i hope i will sell boat to by another car and get my good job back.
 "Happy Figuering"
Sorry pics are to big and not to clear i forgot to check size. (OPS!)
National Security Act of 1947 is a betrayal of American sovereignty and liberty and the main means for oppression of the American people.

hanon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1567 on: September 15, 2014, 09:23:33 AM »
Bajac,

My device is as Figuera described it in 1908: One electromagnet down, One electromagnet up,  and One collecting coil  between their poles. For clarity I will attach an sketch that you will find familiar. I do not understand why you don not accept this scheme as the 1908 patent and you just accept the closed circuit  transformer type. We are dealing with different induction laws, not related to common physics!!  Hubbard coils, hendershot, VTA, Don Smith,...all of them uses open magnetic circuits.

Also for people who have not read the 1908 patent I want to clarify that Figuera did not tell anything in the text about air gaps. All the discussion about air gaps is derived from the drawing, where Figuera drew the coils with some separation.

Also I will copy the translation of a paragraph from the Buforn patent 57955 (year 1914) which states that those devices can be stacked up in order to use two poles from each electromagnet . THEREFORE, the basic configuration just use one pole !!!

PARAGRAPH FROM BUFORN 57955 PATENT (PAGE 14)

If you want even greater production you can place the inducers and the induced one
after the other forming a single series in the next way: you place first an electromagnet
N, for example, next another electromagnet S, and between their poles and properly
placed you put the corresponding induced, with this we will have formed a group of
battery as explained before, but now (instead of forming as many identical groups to the
first one as number of induced coils needed) you can place, following the last
electromagnet S, another induced and, after this last induced you can place an inducer
N, following this inducer by another induced, and then by another S, and so on until
having placed all the inducers which form the series of electromagnet N and S.
With this we will have succeeded in using the two poles of all inducers except the first
and the last one of which we will have only used one pole
and, therefore we will have as
many inducers as induced minus one, this is, if “m” is for example the number of
inducers, then the number of induced will be “m – 1”, which determine a considerable
increase in the production of the induced current with the same expenditure of force.


bajac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1568 on: September 15, 2014, 01:50:13 PM »
Hanon,
No need to get defensive. I did not mean to upset you. It was just a simple and honest question.
So you are saying that your device follows the teachings of the 1914 Buforn's patent, right?
What I see from the picture is three (or five) coils wound in the same core. The core ends at two C-type cores oriented inward with two very large air gaps. Is the core something like this?
 
**********************************
*                                                                      *
*            **********          **********          *
*          *                *           *                 *          *
*         *                 *           *                  *       *
*****                   *           *                   *****
                             *           *                   
                             *           *                   
                             *           *                   
                             *           *                   
*****                   *           *                  *****
*        *                  *           *                  *       *
*        *                  *           *                  *       *
*          **********           **********         *
*                                                                    *
********************************** 

ALVARO_CS

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 178
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1569 on: September 15, 2014, 05:18:52 PM »
with your permission hanon,
correct me if wrong

madddann

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1570 on: September 15, 2014, 11:03:24 PM »
Hello everyone! Hello Hanon!

I'm still following this thread closely (from the begining), never got away from it, did some experiments some time ago, but nothing fruitful arose from them.

Since the Buforn patents were published on the internet, there is just one or two things not clear to me.
For the first, look at the picture below... so what exactly is that layer between the iron core and the induced Y?
Hanon, maybe you have an idea about this layer, since you read through the patents many times. Anyone else is also welcome to clear this up.
The second thing is about the battery - I assume that the small square thing with the tiny circle in it where one positive (going to the comutator) and the two negative lines (comming from the electromagnets) meet, is the battery - is that right?

Hanon, I wish you good luck with your new setup - looks awesome :)

Also everyone else, happy figuering!

hanon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
    • https://figueragenerator.wordpress.com/
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1571 on: September 15, 2014, 11:56:25 PM »
Maddann,

I am happy to see you again around this forum. I can see that you have studied in deep the drawing. My intention with the last traslation was to put into consideration the configuration of the electromagnets.

In another paragraph of that patent, number 57955, Buforn states that you can put a second induced coil inside the first induced coil core in order to generate in this second circuit the signal required to excite the machine, being the first induced coil used completely for other uses. This is just an optimization step, no needed at this stage of our research. Anyway I am glad that you have noted it.

------------------------------------------------------------------

TRANSLATION OF PARAGRAPH ABOUT THE SECOND INDUCED CIRCUIT  (Buforn patent no. 57955, year 1914)

" Another advantage is that around the core of the induced electromagnets we can put
another small size induced electromagnet with equal or greater core length than the
large induced one. In these second group of induced an electric current will be
produced, as in the first group of induced, and this produced current will be sufficient
for the consumption in the continuous excitation of the machine, being completely free
all the other current produced by the first induced electromagnets in order to use it in all
purposes you want.

......

The way to collect this current is so easy that it almost seems excused to explain it,
because we will just have to interpose between each pair of electromagnets N and S,
which we call inducers, another electromagnet, which we call induced, properly placed
so that either both opposite sides of its core will be into hollows in the corresponding
inducers and in contact with their respective cores, or either, being close the induced
and inducer and in contact by their poles, but in no case it has to be any communication
between the induced wire and the inducer wire. "

----------------------------------------------------------------

Note also how Buforn defines the location of the induced core, and how he AGAIN mentions that the induced coil must be placed PROPERLY. Both Figuera and Buforn always stated that the induced coil must be placed properly. What is properly??? 

About the battery question I can not answer you. There is no further info into this patent.

I do not know if you have also noted the electromagnets N and S connections in the zoomed sketch in the post before this one: the connection is done in opposite sides of those electromagnet for any reason. If all the electromagnets are made (in factory) with the same winding direction (then always the same pole is always at the current inlet). Therefore, this connection also suggests that Buforn was using like poles facing each other:  NN or SS

Please revise again the sketch. Thanks for doing such a good zoom of this feature.

I attach a file with all the important parts of this patent translated into english. Basically all the Buforn patent are almost photocopies of Figuera´s 1908 patent but he was adding small details to optimize the system. Some of that details may help us to interpret the basic configuration designed by Figuera. This is my aim explaining in detail these paragraphs and drawing.

Regards

bajac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1572 on: September 16, 2014, 06:58:41 PM »
Bajac, i have constructed circuits for both types of Drive for the Flynn type set up. one is by 555 timing and the other is by slotted disc.

Marathonman,
I do not see a need for a signal generator to test the device I am trying to build. Once constructed, I would only need a small motor to turn the permanent magnets, and test equipment to measure the output vs. input power. It is better to keep it simple when testing the concept. Does that make sense?
 
I think the Flynn's apparatus is way too complicated because of all the switches, transistors, and synchronism required to make it work.
 
Thanks,
Bajac

madddann

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1573 on: September 16, 2014, 11:14:45 PM »
Hi Hanon!

Thank you so much for the translation, now almost everything looks clear (at least to me, hopefully also to others).

Yes, the electromagnets are definitely placed NN, SS - like poles facing each other.

I would just like to mention that in the Figueras (1908) and Buforn patents the cores are simple iron pieces and not transformer like cores (not like shown in the PJK book) - at least this is my opinion.
I was suspecting this from the begining, but now i'm sure of it.
I'm thinking of doing an exact replica for quite some time now, but my budget is low right now and I have no job, so it will have to wait for better times  :) ...but I'm not here to feel sorry about myself, but to help as much as I can in achieving the common goal.

OK, now here is a quote to think about, from one of the Buforn patents - Figueras had a similar (if not exact) statement in the 1908 patent: "...since we have done a continuous and
organized variation we have achieved a constant change in the current which crosses the
magnetic field formed by the electromagnets N and S and whose current, after
completing their task in the different electromagnets, returns to the source where it was
taken."

Now if you are able to do this, you might be onto something - what do you guys think?

Thanks again Hanon for translating all this!

Good luck to all!

bajac

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 285
Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1574 on: September 18, 2014, 06:39:47 PM »
I just wanted to post this link
 
http://www.mojaladja.com/upload/elmotor/276_EWEC2009presentation.pdf
 
to a document written by Hideki Kobayashi. I still think that they have failed to realize the true potential of coreless coils because of the way the permanent magnets are used. It just does not follow the Tiguera's teachings.