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Author Topic: Finally! Independent Testing Of Rossi's E-Cat Cold Fusion Device. Success?  (Read 21830 times)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline markdansie

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Sadly the methodology was flawed, calculations and assumptions wrong. Why do they not do a simple calormetric test??????

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Offline e2matrix

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Sadly the methodology was flawed, calculations and assumptions wrong. Why do they not do a simple calormetric test? ??? ??
So I guess you are saying that without even seeing the device or testing it yourself you know that all the below listed highly credible academics are wrong?    You think that measurement of the produced heat performed with high-resolution thermal imaging cameras, recording data every second is not even more accurate calorimetry tests?   BTW that is spelled calorimetric.   Maybe you'd like to show where the calculations and assumptions are wrong?   
The paper was authored by Giuseppe Levi of Bologna University, Bologna, Italy; Evelyn Foschi, Bologna, Italy; Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér of Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden; and Hanno Essén, of the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden.

Offline MileHigh

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E2matrix:

Quote
You think that measurement of the produced heat performed with high-resolution thermal imaging cameras, recording data every second is not even more accurate calorimetry tests.

I am not an expert here but note that the thermal imaging cameras only measure temperature, they do not measure heat flow (a.k.a. heat production).  I believe that they have to rely on formulas to estimate the heat flow based on the observed temperature.

Some kind of "water jacket" wrapped around the reactor with water flow measurement and water temperature differential measurement would have been one way to measure the heat flow.  It's such a basic kind of setup so it's really unfortunate that apparently we are still "here" and not progressing forward.

We will see in the ensuing weeks what kind of comments we get about the paper from others in the scientific community.  If these four men get "heat" from their peers perhaps that will "knock some sense" into Rossi and he will finally do a proper heat flow measurement?

One can hope.

MileHigh

Offline JouleSeeker

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Sadly the methodology was flawed, calculations and assumptions wrong. Why do they not do a simple calormetric test? ??? ??

I agree, Mark, that they should do a straightforward calorimetric test.  Hard to understand why they did not.

But - can you explain why you say, "calculations and assumptions wrong"?

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Offline e2matrix

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   I will take Jouleseeker's opinion on this as a valid reason why mark was right in asking for a calorimetric test.   ;)    I really had no idea that would be better than what they used.   I thought the thermal imaging device with data recorded every second sounded more high tech but if calorimetry is a better choice than I'll go with that.   I see that calorimetry requires that the material being heated have known definite thermal constitutive properties.    Perhaps that was why they didn't use that method?    But I see they are also saying  that "even  by  the  most  conservative  assumptions  as  to  the  errors  in  the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources."    So I still have confidence Rossi's device is real and can generate usable power in much better ways than most current methods.

Offline minnie

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Hi,
   Why not run two side by side, have one of them without an active ingredient (hydrogen?).
Feed the same power in to each one and see what happens. If they both glow the same
You have the answer.
                                  John.

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Offline LibreEnergia

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Hi,
   Why not run two side by side, have one of them without an active ingredient (hydrogen?).
Feed the same power in to each one and see what happens. If they both glow the same
You have the answer.
                                  John.

It would appear that they did this.

"The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the
active charge present in the E-Cat HT. In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the
expected heat from the electric input." (taken from the abstract of the report.)

I'd have to say they chose a more complicated method than simply heating up some water but the results do seem valid.

Offline profitis

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perhaps mfmp might give us something that we the public can witness openly.they are about to start playing with powders now.

Offline JouleSeeker

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Hope you're right, e2matrix!  I'd like to see this work - and reach the people worldwide.

perhaps mfmp might give us something that we the public can witness openly.they are about to start playing with powders now.

mfmp?

I'd like to see the guys at Univ of Missouri try this.  When I spoke to Arak there last October, his opinion was that the Rossi approach did NOT work as advertised.  In any case, I expect this to be a topic for discussion at the ICCF-18 conf at UMissouri in July.

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Offline lumen

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"The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the active charge present in the E-Cat HT. In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the expected heat from the electric input. Computed volumetric and gravimetric energy densities were found to be far above those of any known chemical source. Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources. "
 
I wonder what mistake all these people are making?
 
Probably just some simple oversight, we all know this is impossible. Right?
 

Offline profitis

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@joule seeker..i do believe the effect is real but the cause is a conundrum.my theory is a 2nd law thermodynamics violation is possibly concentrating ambient heat drasticly .brian ahern of m.i.t. has similar thoughts.

Offline TinselKoala

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Ah, I dunno.
I just looked up the power analyzer because I wanted to know about the clampon "meters" mentioned in the paper.
http://www.pce-instruments.com/english/measuring-instruments/installation-tester/power-analyzer-pce-holding-gmbh-power-analyzer-pce-830-1-det_60706.htm

It's an AC meter, designed for 50 and 60 Hz AC lines, apparently. I can find no indication that the clampons can detect DC current offsets.
Technical specifications
  Measurement values
  Measurement ranges / resolution / accuracy
  PCE-830 + PCE-6801
           Watts AC (50 or 60Hz, PF 0.5 up to 1)
  5.0 to 999.9W / 0.1W / ±1% ±0.8W
     1.000 to 9.999kW / 0.001kW / ±1% ±8W
     10.00 to 99.99kW / 0.01kW / ±1% ±80W
     100.0 to 999.9kW / 0.1kW / ±1% ±0.8kW
     1000 to 9999kW / 1kW / ±1% ±8kW
  PCE-830 + PCE-6801
           Current AC (50 or 60Hz, auto range select, TRMS)
  0.04A to 1A / 0.001A / ±0.5% ±0.05A
     0.4A to 10.0A / 0.01A / ±0.5% ±0.05A
     4A to 100.0A / 0.1A / ±1.0% ±0.5A 
  Voltage AC (50 or 60Hz, TRMS)
  20.0 to 500.0V / 0.1V / ±0.5% ±5 digits
     (measure between phase and neutral)
     20.0 to 600.0V / 0.1V / ±0.5% ±5 digits
     (measure between phase and neutral)
  Harmonic distortion of AC voltage
  1 to 20º / 0.1% / ±1.0%
     21 to 49º / 0.1% / 4% of reading ±2.0%
     50 to 99º / 0.1% / 6% of reading ±2.0%
  PCE-830 + PCE-6801
     Harmonics
of AC current in %
  1 to 20º / 0.1% / ±0.2% of reading ±1.0%
     11 to 20º / 0.1% / ±2% of reading ±1.0%
     21 to 50º (A)/ 0.1% / ±5% of reading ±1.0%
     21 to 50º (mA)/ 0.1% / ±10% of reading ±1.0%
     51 to 99º / 0.1% / ±35% of reading ±1.0%
  PCE-830 + PCE6801
           Power Factor (PF)
  0.00 to 1.00 / 0.01 / ±0.04
  PCE-830 + PCE6801
           Phase angle (Phi)
  -180° to 180° / 0.1° / ±1°
  PCE-830 + PCE-6801
           Total harmonic distortion
  0.0 to 20.0% / 0.1% / ±1%
     20.0 to 100% / 0.1% / ±3% of reading ±5%
     100 to 999.9% / 0.1% / ±10% of reading ±10% 
  Maximum measurement of AC voltage and current
  50Hz / 19µS / ±5% ±30 digits
     60Hz / 16µS / ±5% ±30 digits
  Peak value measurement of AC voltage and current
  1.00 to 99.99 / 0.01 / ±5% ±30 digits
  Frequency range in automatic mode
  45 to 65Hz / 0.1Hz / 0.1Hz

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Offline minnie

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Hi,
   all we need now will be to supply the power for the E-Cat from a Rosemary Ainslee device
And the sky will be the limit!
                                         John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline markdansie

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Hi TK,
I see Rosemary is now being promoted by Sterling.
She sent me a lot of papers and read some but have not had time, or the expertise to offer any opinions.  There is one red flag for me with my basic knowledge....why does it only work with a battery and not a cap????


Everyone else


In regards to Rossi testing, many others on other sites including Sterling's has commented on why the testing is not up to par, including in one case some actual calculation errors using this method.  As Milehigh explained they are measuring heat not heat flow. Rossi from day one has refused scientists to do proper calmetric tests.


From a dumb ass perspective (mine)  If I had a soldering iron and applied power it would heat up but stay in a certain temperature band according to the ability to it to disperse the heat. If I turned it off it would cool down. If I put more power into it it would get hotter and may even glow red and other colors if I kept heating it at a rate faster than it could disperse the heat.
1. What is the difference from this to a Rossi Tube
2. Why does it cool down if it is past the heat thresh hold to make it so called self run.


So Far Rossi has failed to meet every promise or prediction so I am happy to have my track record compared to his anyday
Kind Regards
Mark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


 

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