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Author Topic: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)  (Read 1126725 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #420 on: April 22, 2014, 02:10:45 AM »
F_Brown,

Quote
After some reflecting on the phasing dots this morning I realized that if the coils were arranged in bucking configuration, then when the rotor is in between poles, the coils will cancel out, and when the rotor is aligned with a pole, the flux will then flow though the rotor, allowing the magnetic field in each half of the stator as divided by the rotor to flow in opposite directions.

Yes I looked at that today and came to the same preliminary conclusion.  Notice if you change the dot polarity then you are adding when the rotor is not aligned and then when the rotor is aligned there is flux cancellation in the spinning rotor itself.

To be honest either way you have a transient AC short alternating with normal flux addition.  However, the key thing to keep in mind is that it's the "swipe by" of the rotor that is the key.  You have to be looking at the time-variant aspects because magnetics only work with changes with respect to time.  I can only assume that when you have a "swipe by" event that the rotor experiences Lenz drag.  In fact by definition it has to experience Lenz drag if it is going to pump energy into the LC resonator.

I am not going to push the analysis any further on my end but I welcome you guys to continue on your exploration.  The real way to figure out what is going on would be to actually have the device.

Here is were there is a big problem:

http://be-do.com/index.php/en/forum/index

It appears that on the main forum for the QEG it's 95% excited people that don't have a clue about electronics and magnetics.  The other 5% aren't particularly strong in the subject matter themselves.  I am certainly not an expert myself, but just by reading what's going on there, it's more New Age people than electronics people.  So there is barely a serious technical discussion going on on the main QEG forum.

One can only hope that some of the "be-do" people are also lurking here and trying to pick up on some of the discussion by osmosis.  Hopefully they will get a sense that it's not all roses in the purported future QEG free energy paradise that they are all dreaming of (to the tune of at least $100K USD).

The sad thing is that these "subversive discussions" are probably only "secretly whispered" on "be-do."  The ironic thing is that many "open minded" people are actually living in their own form of fear and intimidation and thoughtcrime.  For example, I read somewhere than on some generic "New Age" web site that is promoting the QEG, any negative posting questioning the QEG is nearly instantly deleted by the person that "watches over" the New Age forum.

So my feeling is that right now there is a lot of repressed "negative energy" that will eventually have to come out and people will start asking serious questions like, "Okay, we have been waiting for two months now, please show us proof that it works."

So I think that this thread has been a positive contribution so far with respect to the real truth.  That's what's important, uncovering the real truth whether it be good or bad.  For those with a decent technical background and a lot of experience watching these types of free energy propositions, the "optics" for this one are just about as bad as they can possibly get.  It's only a matter of time before the "newly discovered free energy flower children" start to wake up and smell the true roses.

MileHigh

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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #421 on: April 22, 2014, 02:26:51 AM »
For reference, here is as close as it gets at this point on the "be-do" forum:

http://be-do.com/index.php/en/forum/qeg-general-topics/272-how-or-why-does-the-qeg-work

First posting by newbie DrTube:  "TOPIC: How or Why does the QEG work????"

Quote
Hello everybody,
I've been extensively studying the QEG User Manual and reading the Tesla Patent (511.916). Has anyone else actually read this patent? I don't understand how the QEG achieves its over unity effect (or COP>1 performance). This specific Tesla patent only describes a resonant transformer type of generator with a to-and-fro moving core which "someone" (James? WITTS?) has cleverly transformed into a rotational device. Good thinking! But there is no COP>1 performance here yet.

I think that the exciter coil is a crucial part for the COP>1 performance (though I can't see one in the WITTS videos). Now the QEG user manual states:
In the QEG, the exciter coil is used to provide a conduction path through the quantum field (zero point) into the generator core. This has the effect of polarizing the core, which increases power output over time.
This doesn't clarify anything to me. I understand clearly that the "classic" Maxwell-Heaviside-Lorentz EM theory is so heavily curtailed that it is incapable of accurately describing what's happening here. I suspect that the vector potential (A) and/or the scalar potential (Phi) generated by the exciter coil plays an important role here.

Who can shine some light on this important matter?

Response by veteran Larry:

Quote
A thorough understanding of the topics you discuss in regards to how the QEG actually works is still being worked on! There are plenty of theories, with many of them being discussed on this forum, but until the machine is replicated, and all of the details figured out, I don't think anyone will have solid answers to your questions. Once there are multiple working copies of the generator we will have scientific and engineering types providing all of the measurements and theories based on actual observations that everyone has been clamoring for. Remember, the QEG is still in its infancy and will take some time to mature. There were some audio recordings posted today by Shean in which the developer of the QEG discusses various details of its operation that you may want to give a listen to.

Best Regards,

Larry

Quantum schmauntum.  Once there are m u l t i p l e   w  o  r  k  i  n  g      c    o    p    i    e    s.......

So there you have it.  HopeGirl asks for donations to run around the world and "teach" people how to make their own QEG so that they can pump power back into the grid!!!  Please just believe it works!  Just believe!!!!

I would say believe if you want to but don't spend one red cent until you get real proof that it does work..........

MileHigh


Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #422 on: April 22, 2014, 02:36:52 AM »
I wouldn't think they wanted the rotor to saturate like that, particularly since it should be running at much higher power levels, more like these shots if you go by what they're saying.

They're saying 24,000 volts on that primary, I don't even see how that is possible, could only be peek and very very briefly.

My model shows 50 amps dc is 1800 volts and 45k watts, you can't get much more than about 11 amps through a 20 awg winding without burning it up. http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm These shots show 50 amps going through, it is so saturated nothing even goes through the rotor and there would be zero output on the secondary as a result of the rotor turning.

But if we clean this up with an appropriately sized rotor this might be a very interesting generator, because it seems quite possible to time the pulsing of the entire system such that there is very little lenz drag on the rotor.

DC Will pump more current though the windings than AC will.  At 400 Hz my simple tank model was showing about 650mA when the peak voltage on the primary was about 25kV.  Can you run your sim at 400 Hz and a peak current of 650mA and see what happens?

The new images seem to show aiding configuration of windings rather than bucking.  Did you change that or is that a result of the higher current?

Offline shinz62

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #423 on: April 22, 2014, 03:58:05 AM »
DC Will pump more current though the windings than AC will.  At 400 Hz my simple tank model was showing about 650mA when the peak voltage on the primary was about 25kV.  Can you run your sim at 400 Hz and a peak current of 650mA and see what happens?

The new images seem to show aiding configuration of windings rather than bucking.  Did you change that or is that a result of the higher current?


I did change it to aiding, oops.

I'm also working on an updated model with a double wide rotor, but it doesn't scale nicely. A fat rotor doesn't really fit good, major changes will be necessary.

I accidentally overwrote the model with the rotor gap specified by the blueprint, this has no gap in the rotor, so it is close but not exactly like it. I'll repair it later and try again, if it is significantly different I will re-post the results.

It took 20-25 minutes to compute each run but here are the results in one orientation aligned, bucking, 400hz:

Primary:
Total current = 0.65 Amps
Voltage Drop = 4300.45+I*60259.5 Volts
Flux Linkage = 23.9765-I*1.7016 Webers
Flux/Current = 36.8869-I*2.61785 Henries
Voltage/Current = 6616.08+I*92707 Ohms
Real Power = 1397.65 Watts
Reactive Power = 19584.4 VAr
Apparent Power = 19634.2 VA

Secondary shows:it
Total current = 0 Amps
Voltage Drop = -479.15-I*6091.01 Volts
Flux Linkage = -2.42354+I*0.190648 Webers
Real Power = -0 Watts
Reactive Power = 0 VAr
Apparent Power = 0 VA


I guess 4.3k volts + 60k imaginary could come out to the 24K volts in the primary they say they're getting. This is very interesting, it shows that it takes ~1400 watt to generate nearly 20KVA! that is great! The secondary should have that available  part of the time as the rotor spins, so they could be correct about the 10K, if your talking VA, but that is NOT watts...hard to say how many watts that is.

Nearly 500 volts in the secondary.

I am convinced it would work better with rotor 2x wider.

Here is the numbers from the lower model with the 2x wide rotor at 400hz:

Primary:
Total current = 0.65 Amps
Voltage Drop = 9197.42+I*102845 Volts
Flux Linkage = 40.9206-I*3.65005 Webers
Flux/Current = 62.9547-I*5.61546 Henries
Voltage/Current = 14149.9+I*158222 Ohms
Real Power = 2989.16 Watts
Reactive Power = 33424.5 VAr
Apparent Power = 33557.9 VA

Secondary:
Total current = 0 Amps
Voltage Drop = -1040.79-I*10900.3 Volts
Flux Linkage = -4.33707+I*0.414118 Webers
Real Power = -0 Watts
Reactive Power = 0 VAr
Apparent Power = 0 VA

Wow doubles the output.


Offline gotoluc

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #424 on: April 22, 2014, 06:49:23 AM »
The below was posted by Peter Lindemann at the Energetic forum

Hey Folks,
 
 Here is an email I have sent to a number of people asking me about the QEG.
 
 Thank you for your email.  The QEG plans show a simple, switched reluctance generator powered by an external electric motor. (page 7)  This has nothing to do with Tesla!!!  This exact design was first proposed by John Ecklin in 1979.  I was a member of a group of researchers in Santa Barbara who built and tested many variations of this class of generator through the 1980s.  These machines are generally called "switched reluctance generators" or more correctly "variable inductance generators."
 
 If you put a capacitor in series with the input, as shown, the unit will "self-excite" if there is a slight amount of magnetism in the rotor or stator material.  There are specific speeds where the electrical output power goes up due to the resonance event, but during these episodes, the requirement of mechanical energy input goes up as well. If you just meter the voltage and the amperage, it looks really good, but it's mostly reactive power as the volts and amps are out of phase.
 
 If the output removes magnetic energy from the core, then there is less to circulate in the resonant tank (LC circuit) created by the input coils and the capacitor bank.  The system has a specific number of joules of energy (real power) circulating in the magnetic core and any real energy removed is produced by the reversal of the field in the output coils by the rotor shifting position.  Rotation of the rotor produces the mechanical shifting of the magnetic fields and reinforces the currents oscillating in the input coils.  One of the patent filings I produced back then was titled "Mechanical Rotary Transformer" and covered a design similar to this in many ways.  The best tests we produced with our prototypes had a COP = 1.2 (120% efficient).  The people involved in the Santa Barbara group included myself, Mike Knox, Bruce DePalma, Chris Carson, and later Eric Dollard.  In a parallel development, John Bedini duplicated much of the same series of experiments and concluded the same thing!  The best the machines could do was about 120%.  All of this happened before the internet, and since the experimental results were disappointing, no final report was ever produced.
 
 Knowing what I know about this class of machine, I do not believe anyone is going to build one of these in their backyard and power their home with it.  We spent over $30k building and $50k testing prototypes of these machines between 1981 and 1987.  This is not going to go where you think it is going.
 
 I stand by what I said in the newsletter.  An "open source" project based on these ideas will not go anywhere.  In fact, this was all "open sourced" in the 1980s by John Ecklin.  Look here at these links, taken from the archive at Rex Research:  John W Ecklin -- Stationary armature generator -- US Patent 3879633, US Patent 4567407, 12 articles
 and here:
 http://www.rexresearch.com/ecklin/ecklin1.jpg
 http://www.rexresearch.com/ecklin/ecklin8.jpg
 
 In the image of the article "ecklin1", John Ecklin is suggesting 400% efficiency was possible, but it never was experimentally demonstrated. In the image of the article "ecklin8", the design of the machine on the left shows the same structure as the one in the QEG plans.  The drawing on the right is from my patent filing, first reported on by Paul Brown in 1981.  Both Paul and I knew John Ecklin.
 
 Sorry, but I am trying to help people understand that this has been looked at, in depth, over 30 years ago, and it doesn't work well enough to produce a self-running machine.
 
 I have no knowledge of the "Fix the World" group or their motives for putting these plans together, but it is my belief that this sort of machine is not perfected yet, and should not be "open sourced" to a community of enthusiastic people who do not have the machine shop skills or the sophisticated electrical engineering and mathematical background to understand the significant subtleties of a variable inductance machine.
 
 That about covers it!
 
 Best regards,
 Peter __________________
 Peter Lindemann, D.Sc.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #424 on: April 22, 2014, 06:49:23 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #425 on: April 22, 2014, 07:50:12 AM »
Luc,

In general terms, that posting by Peter Lindemann is basically correct in his reasoning and discussion of what's taking place from my perspective and from what I have learned over the past week.  However, where he stumbles and falls is in his claim of a COP of 1.2.  Notice he doesn't give any details about what that COP 1.2 even means.

Peter will never meet a challenge when somebody wants to get into an involved discussion with him about electronics and measurements and how a circuit actually words, etc, as far as I am aware.  People like Poynt99 and MarkE and PicoWatt could spin circles around Peter when it comes to electronics and measurements techniques and a whole gamut of hard core electronics and engineering stuff.  Peter is a lightweight that manages to create the illusion that he is very knowledgeable.

I am being somewhat harsh because I view Peter as a "pro" just like HopeGirl and company are crowd-funded pros that are deceiving people and acting unethically while creating the pretense of ethical behaviour.  Are they cons or are they clueless, I am not 100% sure.  But I myself have the common sense to get an expert opinion on something that I don't know much about.  I would be completely mortified to accept donations from people if I didn't know what I was doing.

So sorry to play the Bad Cop but Peter's COP 1.2 claims are junk.  If what he said was true his whole team would have received the Nobel Prize.

A magnetic core in an inductor or a transformer is a lossy mechanism for storing and then recovering magnetic energy by definition.  Even is it is 99.9% efficient at returning the energy that you put into it that is still lossy.  There is no such thing as a magnetic core returning more than you put into it.

Why is Peter claiming COP 1.2?  If you want to be really cynical you can speculate that he says that to keep the
"Peter Lindemann mystique/aura" going to keep those ticket sales high for the next Bedini/Lindemann/Aaron conference.  You play the tease to keep your audience stoked for the next paid live appearance.

Just keeping it real, I hope that you understand.

MileHigh

P.S.:  If any team does a faithful replication of this device the key to understanding it would be to construct a timing diagram that shows in front of your eyes how the thing works.  If there truly was over unity you would literally be able to show a "slice" in a waveform on your timing diagram where the free energy was manifesting itself.  The timing diagram and the associated schematic for any circuit and associated tests rules.  We will see if replication teams actually start reporting their results and if any of them show any timing diagrams.

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #426 on: April 22, 2014, 08:55:11 AM »
shinz62,

I got a FEMM analysis done.  I scaled the core down by 1/2 in all dimensions.  It should use about 1/4 the material of the full sized one, and weight approximately 1/4 of the original.  I also made the stator a bit narrower and the rotor a bit wider to get the rotor to have twice the cross-sectional area of the stator, without making the rotor so wide as to cause problems with the poles taking up too much winding space.  I'm sure my model needs more work, although it was fun to some initial results with this application.  Perhaps this size core would be buildable for 1/4 of the cost of the full sized unit.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 08:23:58 PM by F_Brown »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #426 on: April 22, 2014, 08:55:11 AM »
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Offline ariovaldo

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #427 on: April 22, 2014, 03:43:23 PM »
This one is hard to build and it will take at least 100 hours to be done, but in my point of view is worthful to try.. Anyway, I'm here to learn and if this generator works, this will be great, if not I'm sure that I'll improve my knowledge...


Cheers


Ariovaldo
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 08:26:11 PM by ariovaldo »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #428 on: April 22, 2014, 04:09:56 PM »
WOW Ariovaldo... you have a lot of courage and patience.

All the best to you in your tests

Luc

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #429 on: April 22, 2014, 04:15:07 PM »
Kudos to Lindemann for that report. It is very important for all "QEG" builders to read and understand what Peter is saying in that report. The "QEG" will NOT work as WhateverGirl and Robitaille claim it will. Never, no way Jose, and Peter and his friends explored the entire problem space long ago. I am not too concerned about the paltry claim of COP = 1.2..... that is sufficiently close to the noise floor as to not be exciting or even worth "replicating" his series of experiments to track down the ultimate error. His error analysis and correct recognition of the great reactive power in the system is much more important.

Here is the very most problematic statement in Lindemann's report:

Quote
since the experimental results were disappointing, no final report was ever produced.

Translation: We did not get the results we wanted, so why report anything?

It should be clear that this is egregious pseudoscientific misconduct. When you do an experiment and you get NULL RESULTS.... it is just as important to report those, perhaps even more important than your ... perhaps bogus ... "positive" results that appear to support your hypothesis.
Please refer to the Scientific Method: experiments are done with the purpose of _falsifying_ hypotheses. When you FAIL to falsify your hypothesis, MAYBE it is supported by your results. But when you DO falsify your hypothesis.... by producing "experimental results that are disappointing".... then you KNOW that your experiment does not support the hypothesis. For sure. This is VERY IMPORTANT information, and people who do not publish null results are doing a profound disservice to the community of researchers, as well as violating a fundamental principle, a core component, of the Scientific Method.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #429 on: April 22, 2014, 04:15:07 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #430 on: April 22, 2014, 05:49:40 PM »
gotoluc,   Thanks for your input and reference to the Ecklin device as it does seem very similar although not identical.   


MileHigh,  For a change I find you comments on this enlightening.    I still say though we don't know everything and it is possible some small deviation in how this is built could result in free energy.   But I say just let the QEG guys who are already working on this work this out until they either do or do not have a working device.   If it's not at least putting out twice the power it uses within a year I would consider it a lost cause.   I still do not believe they are trying to scam anyone but maybe they have been duped by the Witt's people into believing it works if the Witts device is bogus. 

Offline ariovaldo

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #431 on: April 22, 2014, 06:05:53 PM »
This one is hard to build and will take at least 100 hours to finish it, but in my point of view is worthful to try.. Anyway, I'm here to learn and if this generator works, this will be great, if not I'm sure that I'll improve my knowledge...


Cheers


Ariovaldo


One more picture.....


Offline ariovaldo

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #432 on: April 22, 2014, 07:04:11 PM »
WOW Ariovaldo... you have a lot of courage and patience.

All the best to you in your tests

Luc
You are right about courage an patience, but it is ok.
Thanks

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #433 on: April 22, 2014, 08:43:29 PM »
To ariovaldo and other builders,

I would recommend doubling down if you are building this generator by attempting to bring
the machine up in stages. First by using the constructed core to build a 120VAC/240VAC 60Hz
generator that requires a 40VDC static field regulator. You could then find how much power
one can apply before the rotor saturates (see above). Since you are not competing with
anyone (business competitors) there is no compunction to maintain the lowest cost optimality
in the design. In fact you have exceeded the requirements by having a larger winding
wire gauge and you would have excess insulation then required. This would give you
experience with generator field regulation before continuing.

Next build a 60Hz resonant design using the same core hopefully with a not-so-high 60Hz voltage
field regulation. With this you should be able to attain sub-harmonic locking between the field resonance
and the rotor,s angular velocity. Lets one figure out how the rotor energy feeds the field resonance.

Here is the thing. If either of these above works with *high efficiency* one could consider attempting to
build a qmogen motor/generator as a overunity bail-out position. This would be just as good as the Witts solution,
maybe better and you would have all the components to do this as required except you would add an
intermediate flywheel pulley.

Finally attempt to construct the 400Hertz High Voltage resonant field. The generator itself would never
have to be modified, but only its supporting circuitry. This could very well give you the experience required
to find a solution to 400Hz high voltage resonance. It would allow you to experience easy success with a
working project - or to find any design show-stoppers before doing the hard part or having a high voltage
field burn out. This would be one reason to attempt to get the high voltage vacuum formed field core
if at all possible, even though this could actually inhibit the device from overunity operation.

:S:MarkSCoffman
 


Offline shinz62

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #434 on: April 22, 2014, 11:54:18 PM »
F_Brown,


Nice job on the simulation,
Of course you had to scale the current and turns too.
can you say what your primary and secondary numbers are at 400hz?


Thanks.






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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #434 on: April 22, 2014, 11:54:18 PM »

 

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