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Author Topic: EM Drive  (Read 16280 times)

raburgeson

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EM Drive
« on: August 04, 2014, 03:24:41 AM »
http://sneakythetechguy.wordpress.com/2014/08/03/emdrive-is-an-engine-that-breaks-the laws-of-physics-and-could-take-us-to-mars/

http://mashable.com/2014/08/02/emdrive-mars-momentum/

This is what we need. The physics we work with is very poor. Someone found and exception to the rule and will market it. Here in the US, we don't know how it works is an excuse to deny a patent. It is far to late for that stance now. China has replicated the engine and verified it's operation. The 300 million market in the US is not important. China and India represents 4 billion customers. These should be on the market soon!

hartiberlin

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 05:54:56 AM »
Great new 3rs law violator !
Finally a space engine that needs no propellant !

Now we have an UFO drive !

Great invention !

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/04/nasa_tests_impossible_microwave_drive_that_could_get_us_to_mars_in_weeks/

Mars, here we come !

Regards, Stefan.


MarkE

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 07:44:12 AM »
It would have been nice if he had addressed any of the mathematical objections, as well as any of the objections made to the validity of the experiments to date.

wings

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 08:11:22 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive



similar:
QDrive US20140013724

raburgeson

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 07:46:21 PM »
A solid hard look at resonant cavities would suggest that it maybe Tesla inspired in this way. Tesla stated build energy by giving an additional push at the right time. Supposing a chamber is constructed so waves of energy add in one direction, so that all the energy lost on the sides is added to the wave striking one end of a chamber? How do you think it might work?

wings

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 09:46:50 PM »
A solid hard look at resonant cavities would suggest that it maybe Tesla inspired in this way. Tesla stated build energy by giving an additional push at the right time. Supposing a chamber is constructed so waves of energy add in one direction, so that all the energy lost on the sides is added to the wave striking one end of a chamber? How do you think it might work?
probably the best example is the boat soliton wave propulsion
http://www.ma.hw.ac.uk/solitons/press.html

http://blog.hasslberger.com/2007/12/schauberger_solitons_and_the_c-print.html


raburgeson

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2014, 10:11:45 AM »
Very possible, any other thoughts people?

Staffman

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 03:50:12 AM »
I personally don't think there is a mystery here. When EM radiation is in transit in free space, it's momentum is independent of the container, relatively speaking. Take a miniature astronaut with a ball inside a box that has a been evacuated of all air. The moment the ball is thrown toward the wall the mass of the box lessens. While the ball is in transit, the mass of the box is independent of the mass of the ball.


In NASA's control test impurities or manufacturing flaws in one side could have been responsible for the force detected. The theory is that an imbalance in an extremely high Q resonant cavity can create a thrust from the momentum of photons, or in this case microwaves. There could have been an imbalance that they did not expect to see. I may be wrong, who knows. I'm sure we don't have to throw out the physics books just yet.


//Edited for grammar... sorry. It was annoying me.//

raburgeson

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2014, 06:56:42 PM »
Well hit one side with energy inside a box and allow the energy to escape out the other side might be likened to driving in a barn spike with a tack hammer. At millions of blows per second. Light propulsion was a hot topic at one time and they came up with a plagiarism of the ion engine. The very same one they will show you today in fact. At one time the ion engine was a very good engine that could launch a rocket from the ground. I believe the first launch date was 1936. (just in case they have decided to rewrite history on this)

The main thing is we identify the action that caused the reaction.

MarkE

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2014, 08:45:17 PM »
...

The main thing is we identify the action that caused the reaction.
Exactly.  I don't know what they were thinking when they decided to test in a vacuum chamber with the door open.

gravityblock

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2014, 09:29:12 PM »
The EmDrive is nothing more than a modified giant cathode ray tube, lol (compare first and second images below). 

Gassiot, in the middle of the nineteenth century, made the first unsuccessful attempts to pass electricity through rarefied gases. After him, Plucker invented the tube which was later used by Geissler for his experiments, from which the name "Geissler tubes" is derived. Other scientists of world fame, like Crookes, also carried out experiments with considerable success, which resulted in considerable progress in the field of physics.

In a Geissler tube the atmospheric pressure is reduced to between 1 and 3 mm. of mercury. If the tube contains air and the anode and cathode ends of it are put into contact with the positive and negative poles of a high tension electric current, the whole tube lights up with a violet light, with the exception of a space at the cathode end where the light is blue and separated from the remaining violet light by a dark band.

Various effects are brought about by changing the gas pressure inside the tube, such as the appearance of dark bands which are known as Faraday bands; the disintegration of gas molecules, liberating hydrogen; changes in the colour of the light to green, yellow, red, etc. Crookes succeeded in proving the mechanical action of cathode rays by bombarding rotary blades with them and setting them in motion. Similar experiments with spheres painted black produced the same result.

There was, however, one great difficulty which dogged the steps of science: cathode rays could not leave the tube of rarefied air since they were incapable of passing through any substance. The scientists asked themselves what effect cathode rays had on the ordinary atmosphere.

It was then that Lenard, Nobel prize winner in physics in 1905, working on Hertz' previous experiments, made an aluminium "window" on the opposite side to the cathode which projected the rays outside the tube where they could be studied with ease. He proved that these "Lenard rays" could be propagated in the atmosphere as easily as in the rarefied air of the tube, causing atmospheric phenomena of a similar nature. He proved that the passage of electrons through the dense air of the atmosphere appeared to open up a tunnel giving rise to strong ionization of the particles with considerable air turbulence and luminous effects which varied according to the voltage used.

However, he could not completely comprehend the nature of the phenomena as he did not know that they were the result of a disturbance in the atmosphere and ether. The most important thing as far as we are concerned, is to know whether or not ionization causes a drop in atmospheric pressure. It is now well known from meteorology that heavy ions cause low pressure, they often bring about devastating cyclones.

It is known that the emission of a single particle of medium velocity can produce in the first centimeter of its trajectory through the atmosphere as many as 24,400 ions. The number gradually increases as the particle proceeds along its trajectory. Even using a low voltage, the electrons moved through space at a speed of between 25,000 and 50,000 miles per second.

Later it was observed that by using 250,000 volts, the electrons moved at 150,000 miles per second. In one experiment 900,000 volts was used, but the speed of the electron was not noted. It is also well known that the higher the voltage used, the greater is the number of ions produced, sometimes as many as 2 million ions appearing in the first centimeter of the electron's trajectory.

Subsequent experiments showed that the electrons emanating from cathode ray tubes could break down the atmosphere and set free hydrogen which then also became ionized. It may well be that these rays break the atmosphere down completely, and set free the nuclei, which they subsequently join up with, thus producing the amount of hydrogen that has been observed.

Madame Curie was able to calculate the speed of ions as 1.3 cm. per electron volt in dense atmosphere, and 6.7 cm. per electron volt when the ionic movement took place in pure hydrogen. This shows that a high voltage would result in a higher electron speed and that in the upper atmosphere the speed would be greater. The vacuum creating effect is, however, not strictly due to the intrinsic speed of the ion, but to the atmosphere's ability to absorb ionized particles.

While negative ions are absorbed by the atmosphere, the positive ones move towards the negatively charged surface of the saucer, at which point the electrons pass into the vacuum. In an ordinary cathode ray tube the electric current reaches a saturation point which shows that all the atmospheric particles contained within the tube have been ionized. This is due to the limited amount of electrolyte within the confines of the tube. In the case of the flying saucer the electrolyte is made up of the whole atmospheric envelope of the Earth which never reaches saturation point. The ionized "bubble" surrounding the saucer is attracted and absorbed by the surrounding atmosphere with tremendous force and in its place only a vacuum is left, into which the saucer moves, impelled by the atmospheric pressure of 1.033 kg. per cm2

The lenard/cathode rays will escape through the outer aluminum layer of the cathode ray tube and will ionize the air. The cathode rays do not directly produce the vacuum. It is the ability of the surrounding medium to absorb the disassociated molecules after they are deformed or ionized by the cathode/lenard rays. The quicker the deformed molecules or ions are absorbed into the surrounding atmosphere, the greater the intensity of the vacuum; the greater the thrust available to the craft. The positive ions are attracted near the surface of the craft, and the negative ions are repelled away from the craft. The surrounding atmosphere then absorbs these displaced ions at an extremely fast rate which leaves behind a vacuum. Please note, this is not an ion propulsion system as most are led to believe for some strange reason. The ions themselves do not move the craft. They use what nature has freely given to them, which is the atmospheric pressure to create a potential to move their craft.

gravityblock

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Re: EM Drive
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 10:02:56 PM »
Saucers create a vacuum in the direction of travel. If there is low pressure on one side, the other side is subject to the full atmospheric pressure.  With an atmospheric pressure of 1.033 kg. per sq. cm. we can calculate that the force operating on a saucer of 20 m. diameter is equal to 3,278,272.8 kg.

Cathode rays have the strange property of decomposing the atmosphere through which they pass. Under the action of these rays, the elements of the atmosphere revert to their etheric state. In addition to this, the cathode rays intersect the anode rays at an angle of 45 degrees. This is achieved by using high voltage and current.  If they wish to go very fast, they use an absolute vacuum, and move through space in a flash. At other times, they use a semi-vacuum, and they will move more slowly. The intensity of the vacuum is proportional to the current used and is controlled by a rheostat. If they want to follow an undulating course, then they use a pulsing current.

Outside the planet's atmosphere, they use a different method.  They make there own etheric fluid inside the saucer, which differs from the terrestrial ether envelope of the planet, and the magnetic field of the planet no longer affects the saucer, and they can enjoy complete freedom of movement.

By changing the polarity of the artificial etheric fluid, so as to oppose that of the planet, then they are repelled from the planet at a speed corresponding to the difference in polarity between the saucer and the planet.  Also, by producing an artificial etheric fluid similar to the planet they wish to travel to, then they will be attracted to the planet at a tremendous speed.

Since there is no sonic boom associated with these crafts, then it must be due to the fact that sound can't propagate in a vacuum, thus their rather quite operation.

Gravock