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Author Topic: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.  (Read 210224 times)

Pirate88179

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #360 on: May 02, 2015, 10:22:33 PM »
And since 9/11 there have been hundreds of terrorist attacks.  And since 9/11 there have been hundreds and hundreds of terrorist plots thwarted.  It's a trade-off between increased government surveillance and going to the evil Capitalist secular shopping mall and having to worry about being blown up, gunned down, or stabbed to death.

You know how the police have to pull up security footage from local businesses when they do an investigation?  We are not far away from the day where all major commercial streets and public places in the entire country are covered by a cohesive network of police cameras.  Skynet for real.  It sucks but what are you really going to do?  The 'enemy' is not only the bad guys already mentioned, the enemy is ourselves and the human condition.

We have seen the enemy, and it is us.

Bill

tinman

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #361 on: May 02, 2015, 11:00:09 PM »

When I put that into my calculator I get 2096...
= -0.9 * 8.313 * 280.15 * 3

vs what I said
= 0.84 * 8.3145 * 291.3 * -3   (-2031)

ln(x/y)=-ln(y/x) so +/- ... as appropriate

your moles are higher, but tempurature lower... so it should still be at least in the same ballpark....
Your answer dose seem more plausible d3x0r,as 6.35kW seems a lot just to fill a 1ltr vessel to 290psi. I will have to check that out with my watt meter and high pressure compressor. Only problem is,the tank is 5ltr's. Is it just a matter of dividing the result in watts by 5?.

Im finding it hard to believe that LE would get this wrong.

d3x0r

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #362 on: May 02, 2015, 11:51:38 PM »
Your answer dose seem more plausible d3x0r,as 6.35kW seems a lot just to fill a 1ltr vessel to 290psi. I will have to check that out with my watt meter and high pressure compressor. Only problem is,the tank is 5ltr's. Is it just a matter of dividing the result in watts by 5?.

Im finding it hard to believe that LE would get this wrong.
I did his own math! 
he's got an extra *3 between that he used for nRT... and what he said for the answer.
It's his numbers that get the same number as me.

-----------
if it's 5L instead it's still 100L source and it's still 20:1 in that...
so it's 5x the energy storage. (J)

LibreEnergia

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #363 on: May 03, 2015, 12:28:58 AM »
Your answer dose seem more plausible d3x0r,as 6.35kW seems a lot just to fill a 1ltr vessel to 290psi. I will have to check that out with my watt meter and high pressure compressor. Only problem is,the tank is 5ltr's. Is it just a matter of dividing the result in watts by 5?.

Im finding it hard to believe that LE would get this wrong.

I'm not sure what kind of calculator he is using but I calculate it the same as before. As a sanity check using mental arithmetic lets say it was 1 mol,  the gas constant is 8 and the natural log of (1/20) is 3 and the temperature is 280 K.  then Joules required =  1 * 3 * 8 * 280 =  6720. I'm not sure how he calculates something near a third of that.

Also the result is in Joules. A joule is a measure of energy not power.  If you were using a 10 kW compressor at 65 % efficiency you'd compress that 20 litre volume down to 1 litre  in approx. 1 second.  A 5 kw compressor would take 2 seconds etc..

 

d3x0r

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #364 on: May 03, 2015, 12:35:43 AM »
I'm not sure what kind of calculator he is using but I calculate it the same as before. As a sanity check using mental arithmetic lets say it was 1 mol,  the gas constant is 8 and the natural log of (1/20) is 3 and the temperature is 280 K.  then Joules required =  1 * 3 * 8 * 280 =  6720. I'm not sure how he calculates something near a third of that.

Also the result is in Joules. A joule is a measure of energy not power.  If you were using a 10 kW compressor at 65 % efficiency you'd compress that 20 litre volume down to 1 litre  in approx. 1 second.  A 5 kw compressor would take 2 seconds etc..
crazy I ran that 3 times before and got the 2k answer...
but ya it's 6.7k...

--------
I see... using -3...
0.84 * 8.3145 * 291.3 * -3
the operator at the end becomes - instead of *

markdansie

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #365 on: May 03, 2015, 01:58:53 PM »
Well i just plotted a graph in 20 meter incroments,and using your 6.35kJ as the target. I reached 6.28kJ at a depth of .1 meters of potential energy. So im guessing i must be doing my calculations right,as that is very close to the target of 6.35kJ. I didnt account for temperature increase as depth decreases,but i dont imagine we will see kJ's of extra energy there. This graph was ploted from a depth of 200 meters below sea level,so i must concede that the presented bouyancy devices thus far are not looking good.
It is always good to work things through and you always learn something along the way.
Kind Regards

hartiberlin

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #366 on: May 04, 2015, 12:56:04 AM »
I uploaded the conference call with Sterling Allan, J.D. , Ronny Korsberg and
me to youtube now, so it is easier to listen to.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpuSFiPERPY


Regards. Stefan.

Pirate88179

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #367 on: May 04, 2015, 03:04:12 AM »
I uploaded the conference call with Sterling Allan, J.D. , Ronny Korsberg and
me to youtube now, so it is easier to listen to.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpuSFiPERPY


Regards. Stefan.

Thanks Stefan, I am going to listen to it now.

Bill

MarkE

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #368 on: May 04, 2015, 09:40:49 PM »
I uploaded the conference call with Sterling Allan, J.D. , Ronny Korsberg and
me to youtube now, so it is easier to listen to.

Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpuSFiPERPY


Regards. Stefan.
Ronny and Sterling really want to believe that Rosch are on the up and up.  They are going to be disappointed.

thngr

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #369 on: May 04, 2015, 11:11:14 PM »
Bouyancy device is not the free energy device here! but the compressor is; combined with stirling pump after. As you know compressed air get wormer; this is the heat source of the stirling pump; box like device near the comp. this is why it can RUN.
about stirling pump: http://calypso53.com/stirling/Stirling_Pump.jpg


From here: http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=427.0

MarkE

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #370 on: May 04, 2015, 11:20:59 PM »
Bouyancy device is not the free energy device here! but the compressor is; combined with stirling pump after. As you know compressed air get wormer; this is the heat source of the stirling pump; box like device near the comp. this is why it can RUN.
about stirling pump: http://calypso53.com/stirling/Stirling_Pump.jpg


From here: http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=427.0
Rosch claim that they run all the equipment in a closed loop with energy left over.  Each of the processes that they claim to use or that others have postulated are all lossy.  So aside from the fact that any postulation of an energy source outside buoyancy would mean that Rosch are telling false storis, no such outside source can generate energy for free. Getting power by secretly pluggin an extension cord into the neighbor's outlet does not make free energy.

A good test to indicate the actual source of Rosch's power would be to monitor the phase and frequency of their machine's alleged output with an oscilloscope synchronized to the utility line, and then to periodically step the load on Rosch's machine up and down.  If the output is locked to the utility then Rosch should explain why.  If the output does not wander from the utility when a step load is added or removed then the utility is almost certainly the actual power source.  This does not prevent a clever fake from building equipment that shifts from the utility even though it is powered by the utility.  Such games require sophistication and enough energy storage to manage the shift.

thngr

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #371 on: May 04, 2015, 11:30:29 PM »
Rosch claim that they run all the equipment in a closed loop with energy left over.  Each of the processes that they claim to use or that others have postulated are all lossy.  So aside from the fact that any postulation of an energy source outside buoyancy would mean that Rosch are telling false storis, no such outside source can generate energy for free. Getting power by secretly pluggin an extension cord into the neighbor's outlet does not make free energy.

A good test to indicate the actual source of Rosch's power would be to monitor the phase and frequency of their machine's alleged output with an oscilloscope synchronized to the utility line, and then to periodically step the load on Rosch's machine up and down.  If the output is locked to the utility then Rosch should explain why.  If the output does not wander from the utility when a step load is added or removed then the utility is almost certainly the actual power source.  This does not prevent a clever fake from building equipment that shifts from the utility even though it is powered by the utility.  Such games require sophistication and enough energy storage to manage the shift.


I have done the math dude! I am REAL believer of free Energy. It's a new kind of compressor and it's above %100!

LibreEnergia

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #372 on: May 05, 2015, 12:39:03 AM »

I have done the math dude! I am REAL believer of free Energy. It's a new kind of compressor and it's above %100!

So lets see the maths that shows that the device pictured is not powered by a. Your hand or b. the candle..

No such maths exists. If you believe you have some you are simply mistaken.


TinselKoala

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #373 on: May 05, 2015, 12:47:51 AM »
Other people have also done the math, dude... and they have shown their work so that it can be reviewed and critiqued. Those people who have done the math _correctly_ have determined that there is no possible way that the Rosch device could produce more than a few hundred watts, and will always require more than that actually to keep turning.

Why does an "overunity" Stirling Pump need:
1. A heat source
2. A manual operating handle
and does _not_ need:
A brake or limiter to keep it from overspeeding to destruction?

I know why... and so do you.

Red_Sunset

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Re: Rosch taking orders on OU Bouyancy device.
« Reply #374 on: May 05, 2015, 06:55:44 AM »
Other people have also done the math, dude... and they have shown their work so that it can be reviewed and critiqued. Those people who have done the math _correctly_ have determined that there is no possible way that the Rosch device could produce more than a few hundred watts, and will always require more than that actually to keep turning.

Why does an "overunity" Stirling Pump need:
1. A heat source
2. A manual operating handle
and does _not_ need:
A brake or limiter to keep it from overspeeding to destruction?

I know why... and so do you. 

Just an observation, followed by advice
Have you ever questioned why you receive this attitude in this forum ?  These extreme reactions and insults ?
It is not that what you say is incorrect, oh no,   it has way more to do with how you say it !!

I agree that many OU enthusiasts are quickly jumping to optimistic but incorrect conclusions.  What starts the conflict is that you (the 3 musketeers, TK, MH, MarkE......) jump even faster to the opposite side with final conclusions that are 5 steps ahead. 
Because they are 5 steps ahead, they are very negative and discouraging, notwithstanding that your conclusion might be correct.  This behaviour is destructive rather than supportive, constructive or guiding/sharing. 
Naturally this type of response will create emotions of a negative kind.

 Think about this for a moment

In the last preceding 3 mails (by MarkE, EnergyLibre, TK) is there any inquiry of interest on how thngr thinks his idea can possibly be realized with the attributes shown in his picture, that depict a pretty regular sterling engine?

I do realize that "thngr" doesn't present anything of substance yet and that you guys have been through the mill of many OU projects that showed promise in their time but led to nothing except to confirm that the late 1800 scientist were right.

Notwithstanding the hope of finding a possible anomaly towards energy of a currently unknown source is still in you. The reason you float around on this website, where you can enjoy some satisfaction of the power of you knowledge and experience.
This knowledge made you skeptical and arrogant when put OU-post to OU-post.  You are technically correct in most of your statements but you are not helpfull or aiding the exchange of idea's.   I agree that many idea's, maybe look to one as gold is trash to experienced eyes, especially when you have seen it before and have been there. 
Although showing some genuine interest, engaging into discussion of interest goes a long way to possibly making / uplifting a weak idea to a brilliant idea.

You can not 'tango' on your own, you need two

My 2 pennies worth,  Red_Sunset