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[hartiberlin]

Here is a message from user ravzz:


Hi Stefan,

I've tried opening a new topic for this but I couldnt.

Check the following videos:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vzTzqpp-Uk
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNJ_vjuO_ME
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1lScTsHBkQ
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiyfwWuA9gA
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nto66FTfdTg
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqSyTiPu8VI

For all the info on these videos you could go to

www.oupower.com

Discussions.......than hydrogen forum.


You could copy all the info i've posted there under the user name ravzz and post it here if need be.

Just thought i'd help as many people to replicate my WFC before im stopped again.


Regards,
ravzz

[Dyamios]

How many times is this going to be scrapped up off of the basement floor?

I don't want to be a pessimist or anything, but really, why is there any rhyme or reason to believe that pulsed (essentially AC) electricity will somehow fracture water molecules any better than regular DC. There is no electrical resonant frequency of water to be found. It physically does not exist.

H2O doesn't even vibrate in any electrical fashion, let alone has the capacity to hold resonant energy. The simple reaction occurring during electrolysis is merely extra electrons being transfered to form gaseous Hydrogen and Oxygen (diagrammed below):
H20 + e- -> H2 + O2

The reason there is less energy use is because of the minute gap between the electrodes. The smaller the gap, the less distance the electrons and ions have to move to form new molecules.

The reason the water heats up is because when the water molecules fall apart when extra electrons are supplied, the various atoms must migrate through the water itself to the various electrodes, where it finally forms the gaseous form. As these particles move, they bump into other molecules and atoms, and add entropy (in the form of heat) to the system. This is INEVITABLE and ALWAYS occurs no matter what kind of frequency is used. The less gap, the less chance for the particles to bump into each other, therefore creating less heat, but heat will ALWAYS be produced.

Therefore electrolysis can NEVER under ANY type of circumstance be more than 99% efficient.

Stanley Meyers had a flawed understanding of the process of electrolysis, and his theory was debunked by the patent office.

Electrolysis does not magically break apart water molecules wherever they stand. The particles must move extensively, and whilst doing so they always add entropy to the system.



I'm begging everyone who reads this: PLEASE learn the rudimentary science before running off go blindly believe somebody. Most, if not all, of the theories here are flawed in some basic way (it goes without saying that the laws of thermodynamics are excluded from this, as every theory violates this).


Enough of Stanley Meyers. He was a fraud. His theory was flawed. He was weighed, measured, and found guilty. What does it take to get people to realize that water is NOT an energy source. At most its an inefficient energy carrier.

Hydrogen is only the future of MOVING energy, NOT making it. Please people, understand this!

[NerzhDishual]

@Dyamios

What about this link?
LOW CURRENT ELECTROLYSIS OF WATER
Ph. M. Kanarev

http://www.guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/electrolysis/index.html

Best

[Dyamios]

I read it through, and it doesn't really prove anything:

Conclusion

 

        Energy efficiency index of the low current electrolysis should be refined, but in any case it will be greater than 10, that?s why there is every reason to think that a way to production of inexpensive hydrogen from water and transition to hydrogen energetic is opened.

It's not terribly efficient, and its not near overunity. This is just a method of using less current to make hydrogen (less energy in general), which does make less heat, but also makes far less hydrogen:

generates small quantity of gases

What's your exact point of posting this?

This further proves my point that hydrogen is merely an energy *carrier* not a source! Its far more efficient to use batteries! The only reason to use hydrogen is because of its compressibility and use in combustion engines. But by the time you convert the electricity to hydrogen and back to kinetic motion, you've lost at least %50 of the original energy.


I still don't understand why there is so much research going into hydrogen technologies.

[rMuD]

there is so much reseach on it because it's a technology that is natural progression and cost effective to existing technology.  Meaning that we can retrofit the technology of the past 100 years to use a new fuel without a complete overhaul, as the migration to fuel cell, or to whatever power source comes up next. 

Meyers and others may have made this work, and even if they didn't this is a grass roots forum for people to try, and dream and hope maybe it did.  pulsed DC may work under the theory of charging a capacitor, need 300KV charge at 7mm to get it reach the breakdown voltage though, and I don't see anyone talking too much about it here. 

Everyone is going after HHO for 20-30% more effeciency..  I was talking to someone that compresses air thru a membrane that only allows Oxygen thru, and has simular results as these HHO companies are having, power conversion and emission reduction, 10x less grief possibly...

Mixing Aluminum and Gallium (Heat sink paste for Computers)  causes the aluminum not to skin, and gives off Hydrogen..  no oxygen though..  no other gases at all...  make H2, alumia (Alumia Oxide completely prepared for re-electrolysis) and gallium is re-usable with no conversion.  http://www.instructables.com/id/ECB3EDDF2FRVK4R/

I am more interested in this technology than most, as I have a gas hog, I get 2 Gallons to the mile.. to convert over to a Fuel Cell or magnetic flux or whatever bleeding edge technology would cost me $100k+  if not more.. dealing with weight differences, engineering etc...    where a Hydrogen Boost or HHO conversion solution costing me less than $5 or 10k    pay for it self in less than a year....

[ravzz]

Hi Dyamios.....youre free to air your views about physics and thermodynamics!!......have you heard about plasma electrolysis??



Japanese Hokkaido University experiment which achieved some mind boggling results and was also replicated by JL Naudin...

These guys went OU with the generation of Hydrogen. Their experiment and results link

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf

As per their conclusions: 'current efficiency' is 8000% to the input!!!


I'm not here to argue wether things work as per the preset laws of physics or thermodynamics but you need to keep an open mind to evolve and see if something actually works.......I'm and engineer and been taught that things dont work if you break the laws....well I know my laws...thank you.....I've been making cells for the last 8 years but now Ive got something that works......and if people want to replicate it they can im giving out info on how to do it.....if they dont want to.....fine by me!....im getting nothing nor losing any thing by this....Stan wanted to sell his units......well im not.......this is for the people who are already trying it out and who want to....

Now the reason why i wanted to post the replication info.......(Ive posted the following for Bob Boyce on oupower)....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its time we did something about the environmental mess the world is in.....its accelerating by the year and it wouldnt be long before that the powers be would realize that most of these changes are irreversible ......Vanishing Glaciers......melting polar caps.....Europe has seen the hottest summers in living memory.......and now Asia is going through the worst floods in the living memory.......we are heading for a disaster and have already reached a point of no return with the fossil fuel addiction.......time we make ourselves count....by helping others to make this technology feasible and easy to replicate......whatever small contribution.....no matter how much ever small to improve the air we breathe would go a long way for our childrens future......


We need people to know this side of science before its too late.......look at the change in the environment in the last 100 years......in the garb of development were ruining the world we live in for the future generations and we are shown a picture of development as prosperity.....actual fact being more the prosperity more we ruin the environment for our creature comforts......its a vicious cycle....we could introduce the alternate science at places where its hurting the environment the most atleast in a small way....

Bob lets see how they take this experiment and what they make of it...I wouldnt be surprised if some hooter comes onto the forum and starts rubbishing the work to make atleast a few people stay away from experimenting this setup....

I'm just hoping that the risk im taking in teaching people how to make this expt work wouldnt be for nothing!! I've been through some harassment before and can go through some more if its for the greater good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Guys ive posted all the info needed for replication if you want to or not is upto you!.....well my work here is done!!

GOOD LUCK!!

[ravzz]

Tha JLN Labs Replication of plasma electrolysis Link:


http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/diycfr/cfrg01.htm


and quite a few others who have replicate the same......


http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/index.htm

[wizkycho2]

Hi Dyamios.....youre free to air your views about physics and thermodynamics!!......have you heard about plasma electrolysis??



Japanese Hokkaido University experiment which achieved some mind boggling results and was also replicated by JL Naudin...

These guys went OU with the generation of Hydrogen. Their experiment and results link

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTgeneration.pdf

As per their conclusions: 'current efficiency' is 8000% to the input!!!


I'm not here to argue wether things work as per the preset laws of physics or thermodynamics but you need to keep an open mind to evolve and see if something actually works.......I'm and engineer and been taught that things dont work if you break the laws....well I know my laws...thank you.....I've been making cells for the last 8 years but now Ive got something that works......and if people want to replicate it they can im giving out info on how to do it.....if they dont want to.....fine by me!....im getting nothing nor losing any thing by this....Stan wanted to sell his units......well im not.......this is for the people who are already trying it out and who want to....

Now the reason why i wanted to post the replication info.......(Ive posted the following for Bob Boyce on oupower)....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its time we did something about the environmental mess the world is in.....its accelerating by the year and it wouldnt be long before that the powers be would realize that most of these changes are irreversible ......Vanishing Glaciers......melting polar caps.....Europe has seen the hottest summers in living memory.......and now Asia is going through the worst floods in the living memory.......we are heading for a disaster and have already reached a point of no return with the fossil fuel addiction.......time we make ourselves count....by helping others to make this technology feasible and easy to replicate......whatever small contribution.....no matter how much ever small to improve the air we breathe would go a long way for our childrens future......


We need people to know this side of science before its too late.......look at the change in the environment in the last 100 years......in the garb of development were ruining the world we live in for the future generations and we are shown a picture of development as prosperity.....actual fact being more the prosperity more we ruin the environment for our creature comforts......its a vicious cycle....we could introduce the alternate science at places where its hurting the environment the most atleast in a small way....

Bob lets see how they take this experiment and what they make of it...I wouldnt be surprised if some hooter comes onto the forum and starts rubbishing the work to make atleast a few people stay away from experimenting this setup....

I'm just hoping that the risk im taking in teaching people how to make this expt work wouldnt be for nothing!! I've been through some harassment before and can go through some more if its for the greater good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Guys ive posted all the info needed for replication if you want to or not is upto you!.....well my work here is done!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Dyiamios should know that everything in universe is capable of resonating, even the energy itself.
Let's talk about laws:
Still in hydrogen production (by means of electrolysis of water) science is using Faraday's law that uses only current strenght as relevant for ammount hydrogen produced.
This Faraday law can be seen here in action
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1245.0.html        130W

But this pulsed (probably resonating) setup proves that Faradays law can not be applied with pulsed DC:
production of O2 H2 is allmost identicall with 1A as I am producing at 30A.

@Ravzz, can you please give some more data (voltage, frequency...)
Are Coils needed ?

igor knitel

[ravzz]

Hi Igor,

I've posted a lot of data on the following link...theres everything you need to replicate in the discussion page

http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1602



incase this link doesnt work then go here to the main page for hydrogen forums

http://www.oupower.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1


then go to 'Ravi's Meyer Replication - Tap water to H2'


Most of the questions you might have would have already been answered there....incase you need to know something else post it here or on the oupower forum so that I wouldnt have to answer the same thing again.

[ravzz]

Hi Igor,

You seem to be using brute force el'sys....instead of 5 V try going down to 2 V which is practically sufficient in this kind of electrolysis..... or you could try Bob Boyce's devices......theyre pretty efficient...


http://pesn.com/2007/01/08/9500445_Bob_Boyce_Electrolyzer_Plans/

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Bob_Boyce_Electrolyzer_Plans


Theyre all on public domain.....free to replicate.