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[Omnibus]

I have registered for one purpose and one purpose only. I just can't *stand* it anymore and I have to say something.

People's names get an @ sign in front of them if you are speaking "at" them. You don't need to put an @ sign in front of everyone's name, every single time. You use it when you are addressing someone directly, or responding to a comment they made. You don't use it when you are talking *about* them.

Example:

1)  @Omnibus: could you please stop using unneeded @ signs?
2)  I really hope Alsetalokin's motor turns out to be the next big thing.

See the magic there? I referred to Alsetalokin, but I didn't need to put an @ sign in front of his name, because I was talking about him in passing, not speaking directly to him.

I'm sorry to draw attention to this but with such erudite discussion going on, this simple little detail is driving me crazy.

The @ sign is used to indicate that whatever is after it isn't someone's name but his or her internet handle. Therefore, I will continue using @ when referring to handles, rather than actual names. And, by the way, there's no one either here or in Steorn forum going by the name Alsetalokin, as you're trying to make us believe. You may restrain in the future from making useless comments.

[Omnibus]

@Bruce_TPU,

Using a tachometer in this case is a must. Hate to be negative but the only thing I see here are the harmonics during the wind down. I think that's the problem, not that your "nervous system and muscles could well be imparting enough energy via his fingers into the stator as he holds them, in layman's terms, trembling hands" and similar ridiculousness. I'm not saying that resonance effects are not worth exploring and aren't connected with the acceleration effect we're looking for.but that still doesn't seem to be it. Experiments with a tachometer may prove me wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

[RunningBare]

@Bruce_TPU,

Using a tachometer in this case is a must. Hate to be negative but the only thing I see here are the harmonics during the wind down. I think that's the problem, not that your "nervous system and muscles could well be imparting enough energy via his fingers into the stator as he holds them, in layman's terms, trembling hands" and similar ridiculousness. I'm not saying that resonance effects are not worth exploring and aren't connected with the acceleration effect we're looking for.but that still doesn't seem to be it. Experiments with a tachometer may prove me wrong but I'm not holding my breath.

Calling my theory ridiculous?, oh I'm hurt, but thats ok 

Did you miss the part where it accelerated before wind down?
It is far from ridiculous that the human nervous system can react at incredibly fast speeds, even to the point of being imperceptible to the naked eye, yes I could be wrong, but not something to be discounted as ridiculous.

[Omnibus]

No, I don?t see acceleration before wind down. The entire run is a wind down as far as I can judge from the pitch of the sound as well (@Yadaraf may try to analyze it, I hope). It?s an optical illusion that there?s acceleration. An experiment with a tachometer may prove me wrong and that would be nothing short of reproducing @alsetalokin?s effect, Bruce?s nervous system notwithstanding.

[CLaNZeR]

ummm interesting twist to the OCMPMM config

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=htw07uB6bXY

[FunkyJive]

If acceleration or momentarily sustained speed is in evidence with Bruce's motor then this could simply be the result of harmonic resonance as the kinetic energy in the main rotor reduces. However, this would not suggest a rise in latent energy from the initial spin.

By way of a simple example, using a hi-fi speaker emitting a falling bass tone in a room with multiple resonant/reflective paths, one could simultaneously turn down the volume and frequency -  though a relative increase in perceived audio volume (at frequencies of room resonance) would not suggest an increase in output power. At such points it would merely be a reduction in loss  that resonance brings about.

However, from the various posts and results that I've seen, I believe that resonance is almost certainly a critical factor to get this motor to work at-all, where weights, flux density, diameters (etc etc) would collectively prove critical in achieving positive results. This is where I believe that a motor-driven system to monitor energy absorption could prove invaluable in establishing where those points of resonance may exist and would offer the means for optimisation. Here a simple (unrelated) example would be to manually tune to a radio station (to hererodyne and therefore tune at the right frequency), though a broadcast signal is first needed to reveal when optimal tuning has been achieved. A driven rotor would effectively provide that "broadcast signal".


FunkyJive

[CLaNZeR]

Now looking at new Specs

144mm Diameter
18mm Thick HDPE
Spacing from edge of Rotor to inner magnet line 13mm.
1/4 " Slots 12mm deep.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/144rotor2.jpg)

Have cleared 2mm off a piece of 20mm HDPE so it will be 18mm thick.
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/144rotor1.jpg)

Weight without magnets or axle is 246g
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/144rotor3.jpg)


Weight with Rotor magnets added it is 271g
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/144rotor4.jpg)

Instead of marking the magnets with a Pen I have used insulation tape wrapped around that also makes the magnets fit tight into the rotor.

Ran out of time for this weekend as have to set off travelling early evening, but will try mount it maybe.

Cheers

Sean.

[Omnibus]

If acceleration or momentarily sustained speed is in evidence with Bruce's motor then this could simply be the result of harmonic resonance as the kinetic energy in the main rotor reduces. However, this would not suggest a rise in latent energy from the initial spin.

By way of a simple example, using a hi-fi speaker emitting a falling bass tone in a room with multiple resonant/reflective paths, one could simultaneously turn down the volume and frequency -  though an increase in perceived audio volume (at points of room resonance) would not suggest an increase in output power. At such points it would merely be a reduction in loss that resonance brings about.

However, from the various posts and results that I've seen, I believe that resonance is almost certainly a critical factor to get this motor to work at-all, where weights, flux density, diameters (etc etc) would all prove critical in achieving positive results. This is where I believe that a motor-driven system to monitor energy absorption could prove invaluable in establishing where those points of resonance may exist and means for optimisation. Again, a loose analogy would be to manually tune to a radio station (to hererodyne and therefore tune at the right frequency), though a broadcast signal is needed to reveal when optimal tuning has been achieved.


FunkyJive

I agree, these are the lines along which we should try to seek the solution. This has to be explained away better, though: "then [the ostensible acceleration] could simply be the result of harmonic resonance as the kinetic energy in the main rotor reduces." Acceleration needs energy input, not reduction. Unless, you can show a mechanism whereby the initially imparted energy is somehow discharged differently than the way it goes down in an usual wind down and somehow turns into input rather than loss.

[dean_mcgowan]

If acceleration or momentarily sustained speed is in evidence with Bruce's motor then this could simply be the result of harmonic resonance as the kinetic energy in the main rotor reduces. However, this would not suggest a rise in latent energy from the initial spin.

By way of a simple example, using a hi-fi speaker emitting a falling bass tone in a room with multiple resonant/reflective paths, one could simultaneously turn down the volume and frequency -  though an increase in perceived audio volume (at points of room resonance) would not suggest an increase in output power. At such points it would merely be a reduction in loss that resonance brings about.

However, from the various posts and results that I've seen, I believe that resonance is almost certainly a critical factor to get this motor to work at-all, where weights, flux density, diameters (etc etc) would all prove critical in achieving positive results. This is where I believe that a motor-driven system to monitor energy absorption could prove invaluable in establishing where those points of resonance may exist and means for optimisation. Again, a loose analogy would be to manually tune to a radio station (to hererodyne and therefore tune at the right frequency), though a broadcast signal is needed to reveal when optimal tuning has been achieved.


FunkyJive

I agree, these are the lines along which we should try to seek the solution. This has to be explained away better, though: "then [the ostensible acceleration] could simply be the result of harmonic resonance as the kinetic energy in the main rotor reduces." Acceleration needs energy input, not reduction. Unless, you can show a mechanism whereby the initially imparted energy is somehow discharged differently than the way it goes down in an usual wind down and somehow turns into input rather than loss.

It's a long shot but there could be an elastic function between the rotor and the stators whereby the stators store some of the energy imparted into the rotor and release it back again. looooooooong shot .. given that there is no quantitative measurements of acceleration.
If we could see that the stators slowed down in relation to the speed gain of the rotor .. then maybe .. but that doesnt seem apparent even from casual observations made of the videos.

Hmmmm...

Dean

[g4macdad]

Bruce,

Nice Vid!

I have sound too.. though i find it hard to perceive the acceleration. Is it at all possible that you can do this by fixing the stators in place with blue tac or something as I can't help but believe you are adding energy into the system (not accusing you of deliberate fakery).

Cheers,
Dean

@Dean
How could he add energy? He did not do any additional movements other than the start up.
hmmm.... maybe he was wiggling his fore finger 

Dean.... why don't U construct one of these little beast? Then U can answer all your own q"s
U must be thinking of the Steorn rep video where the guy was oscillating a magnet to induce rotation ?

Regards
Bill

Specs are too loose and no convincing reps so far, otherwise I would certainly try.

@dean_mcgowan
So, since you plan no attempt at replication, are we to assume that you are simply positioning yourself as a stumbling block to those who are?

If so, what is your ultimate gain if you are successful?

[dean_mcgowan]

Bruce,

Nice Vid!

I have sound too.. though i find it hard to perceive the acceleration. Is it at all possible that you can do this by fixing the stators in place with blue tac or something as I can't help but believe you are adding energy into the system (not accusing you of deliberate fakery).

Cheers,
Dean

@Dean
How could he add energy? He did not do any additional movements other than the start up.
hmmm.... maybe he was wiggling his fore finger 

Dean.... why don't U construct one of these little beast? Then U can answer all your own q"s
U must be thinking of the Steorn rep video where the guy was oscillating a magnet to induce rotation ?

Regards
Bill

Specs are too loose and no convincing reps so far, otherwise I would certainly try.

@dean_mcgowan
So, since you plan no attempt at replication, are we to assume that you are simply positioning yourself as a stumbling block to those who are?

If so, what is your ultimate gain if you are successful?

Absolutely contrary to your claim I am totally in favour, should Al offer a full specification and stop this ridiculous guessing game, of doing a complete precise replication with all exact parts at whatever cost.
Since he is not forthcoming with all of these details and will not post a video of the quality commensurate with such a discovery, be it OU or otherwise. Then i plan to voice my opinion of the folly of those that are attempting proofs and hope that they too would put more pressure to gain access to the necessary information.

Hence my success might benefit all involved.

I also am not part of some black book debunking project that some others might try to imply 


Regards,

Dean

[JFK]

@ Dean - The fact of the matter is that Al denied overunity. 
Nevertheless he was barraged with claims that he did claim overunity and he was claimed to be a fraud and continues to be by persons like yourself.

Others with resources have attempted a replication and have discovered a strange magnetic anomoly. That alone should be investigated on it's own merits.

You are not helping, and indeed are hindering the efforts of these people investigating this phenomon with the attitude portrayed in your posts.

Why ?

[Bruce_TPU]

Good morning All,

The sound is fine on my copy of the video on my computer.  Any idea why it would not be on youtube?  I want all of you to hear it.  I am sorry the sound did not transfer well, and I don't know why.

Did all watch both video's?  Is the sound the same in both of them?

I will make one right next to the motor later today.  It will be more for sound than visual.

My Tachometer arrives Wednesday. 
Anyone I have shown it to in person, see and hear the acceleration.
The reason I spin it so fast to start off, is like I said earlier, there are certain RPM it seems to like.  It is only at these RPM's I see the effect.  One is at the very fast initial speed, another a bit less than that.  It will not accelerate at just any RPM.

It is cool, though, the last few seconds of a wind down.  It just keeps slowly spinning around.  And then it finally stop.  I will have to make a video of this too, so you all can see.  It just shows how close this thing is to being self running.   IMHO


@ Running Bear
Perhaps you can post the amplified wave file of my videos, for every one?

@ Dean
I can tape the stators.  I simply hold them because they are on bearings.  I simply did not want to get gunk on my base.  I still have a replication to make with this base.   

Cheers all,

Bruce 

[FunkyJive]

It's a long shot but there could be an elastic function between the rotor and the stators whereby the stators store some of the energy imparted into the rotor and release it back again. looooooooong shot .. given that there is no quantitative measurements of acceleration.
If we could see that the stators slowed down in relation to the speed gain of the rotor .. then maybe .. but that doesnt seem apparent even from casual observations made of the videos.

Hi Dean.

Yes, sadly video's alone don't provide the frame synchronicity with the rotor in order to appropriately identify the smallest wobbles or point-by-point consistency.

If I had more time available then (as electronics is part of my game) I would probably have knocked-up an opto-reflective sensor to trigger frame-grabs from the rotor position. Irrespective of the rotational velocity, the sensor could slowly and progressively be moved around the rotor in attempting to record consistency and evidence of elasticity during rotation at different speeds (or points of resonance), along with resultant interaction of the moving parts. Replaying the compiled frames would result in very  slow-motion video - independent of rotor speed.

I vaguely recall an earlier post claiming positive effects when the rotor weight  was reduced, so I guess that the corresponding reduction in inertia could add weight to this possibility (no pun originally intended - sorry  ).

Probably easier and just as-well to conduct superficial measurements and tuning though, given that the general specs of the claimed working unit are already defined.


FunkyJive

[RunningBare]

Good morning All,


@ Running Bear
Perhaps you can post the amplified wave file of my videos, for every one?

I'm presently trying to filter the audio, but anyone can hear it if they have a graphic equalizer on there system, cut all frequencies except those from 200hz to 550hz, if need be boost these, to me the acceleration is definitely evident.

@ Dean
I can tape the stators.  I simply hold them because they are on bearings.  I simply did not want to get gunk on my base.  I still have a replication to make with this base.   

Cheers all,

Bruce 

I suggest not using anything that will hold the stators solid, a rubber band around the stator and stretched to a fixed point, this will allow oscillation in the stator, you can also adjust the rubber band to increase or decrease sensitivity to oscillation.