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[Omnibus]

What should happen is to ask @alsetalokin to replace the parts from unknown sources with parts (magnets, bearings, screws etc.) of known origin and tell us if he still reproduces the effect seen in his first video. If he were to publish this in a peer-reviewed journal he would be asked to do that by the reviewers. Otherwise it's just a frivolous playing a cat and mouse game with those genuinely interested in this experiment.

That's why I'm saying again, given these unfortunate circumstances (the "author" not willing to abide by the scientific standards) the credit for constructing this device should go solely to the person or persons who would really  find out the conditions for independent parties to easily reproduce this effect.

[Bruce_TPU]

@ Omni
Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  If I know a particular Mfg. Bearing works, why would I want another?  I would have started with those, if I had known the name.  And it is a Mfg. of bearings.  I will find and order some tomorrow. 

I'll post the info for those that want it.

@ Ken
Is the SHCS screws that you have magnetic or non magnetic?  Some stainless is, and some is not.

Please verify and let me know.  Thanks!

Cheers,

Bruce

[blue_energy]

@AndreaGanora, that is an intrigueing and complex theory, however a few pages back, I think we determined that Al's balls are ceramic. 

< pictures a bearing within a bearing with ceramic races and magnetized balls running itself > [ someone wanna do the math on that one ? ] 

@JFK
Apart from jokes and from my "Magnetized Bearing?s magnetic vortex and delayed tailing effect"    wild teory  , I've based my two actual replication's rigs  mainly on the infos collected in a pdf file downloadable from OSPMMdotORG where are included lods of infos posted mainly by Al plus some others on various wipmag treads over at steorn and elsewhere.

There you can read Al's stator's bearings description  :
Stator bearings -
I had 8, they are Stewart-Warner, and I had to buy 5 more from another source, they are
unmarked.
Bearing is generic ball bearing, ferromagnetic, 0.500 x 0.1875 x 0.125
(Editor's note: If you look at the photos it is obvious the bearing is
0.500OD x 0.125ID x 0.1875H )
Mass of stator magnet assembly, including holder, magnet, and bearing:
10 grams. Variation between the 13 units is below the resolution of my (home) scale. 
 
@ All
here is the updated Pdf file,  it can be a great  help to go trough the various setup changes Al's operated  on his rig :

http://www.ospmm.org/whipmag/pdf/OC_motor_012708.pdf

Cheers and good luck everybody

Hello Andrea,

That bearing information is VERY useful.  I am meeting with the bearing guy tomorrow.  I will try to track those down.

EDIT:
I wish we had the height from the top of the base to the top of the rotor.

Cheers,

Bruce

Also, there is info. there on what is included in the 258 grams rotor weight ("including magnets and shaft adapter, but not including shaft or bearings"); what the composition of the rotor spindle and bearings are; etc.  All the stuff Omni was looking for, I believe.  Invaluable document!

[Bruce_TPU]

Hello all,

I have just labeled this picture.  This is what I need to now work on, while I await my rotor.  It should be here this week.  It has already been shipped.

When it arrives, I will weigh everything and post the weights.

G'night,

Bruce

[vipond50]

@ Bruce, Omni and Others

Was comparing my stator referencing Rotor magnets orientation to the attached Pic and could not come up with the same. Was wondering if u could look at your Orientations and supply some feedback.
Q.- Did Al accurately mark the N & S of his Stator Magnetics ?

Thanks
Bill]

[Omnibus]

@vipond50,

Will do that as soon as my rotor arrives today and will let you know.

[vipond50]

@vipond50,

Will do that as soon as my rotor arrives today and will let you know.

Thanks Omni
i can only get one to line up, The other two are out 20 or so degrees. In the mean time i will try to angular measurements off my setup as well as Mea's off the pic.

Regards
Bill

[AndreaGanora]

 

@ Bruce, Omni and Others

Was comparing my stator referencing Rotor magnets orientation to the attached Pic and could not come up with the same. Was wondering if u could look at your Orientations and supply some feedback.
Q.- Did Al accurately mark the N & S of his Stator Magnetics ?

Thanks
Bill]

@vipond50
Good you pointed this out , I didn't notice
I think i can recall someone usking Al to chek if he had marked his mags correctly , and Al unswering that they could have been all marked wrongly colorwhise ( that meaning that black could mean either noth or south ) but that he doublechecked all of them and all stator's and rotor's mags showed to be  marked same colour on same poles and therefore to be consistent  .
Here is a pic of my rig , I've tried to let the rotor sit in the same position as Al's and as you can see it doesn't really match by spacing and angoular alignment of rotor's/stator's mags.
Note : All magnets on my rig are standard colour marked RED=NORTH and WHITE = SOUTH  - my rotor is ( EDITED shaved it tonight on the Lathefrom 20 down to 18 mm )thick HDPE - weight 8edited now weight 260 grams  included bearings so different design but allmost spot on about the weight )- 144mm dia. -  magnet housing groove 13mm deep by 7mm whide - distance from rotor's outher edge to magnet's housing groove inner edge 13mm - 1/2" dia by 1/4" deep centerholes on both sides of rotor , centerholes housing 2 SKF 624-2z bearings normal ferromagnetic same as the ones I use for the stators- dumpers made of anticorodal alluminum same dimensions as stator's mags BUT NOTE that the rotor's mags are K&J's D48 that are N42 grade and not N35 as appearently the ones used in Al's working rig , but I don't know if the different alignment could depend on this factor , i rather suppose that the rotor's N42 mags would anyway balance themselves respect to the stator's ones in the same way as the N35 would but not shure about that  .

[Bruce_TPU]

Hello Andrea,

A nice looking rig.  What materials are your dampers?  If it is not the 6061 T-6 I suggest you change to that.  Also use the nylon for the center screws of the dampers.  Or golf Tees.  Other screws will add to the dampening effect. 

I am working on proper screws today, myself.

Good Job!

Cheers,

Bruce

[Omnibus]

@vipond50 and @AndreaGanora,

@WhiteLite brought up the question for magnets being off in the strobe video and @alsetalokin answered it here: http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?p=2188#2188. Obviously, there must be a similar problem in the device shown in the picture as well.

[ken_nyus]

@ Ken
Is the SHCS screws that you have magnetic or non magnetic?  Some stainless is, and some is not.

Please verify and let me know.  Thanks!

Cheers,

Bruce

Hey Bruce,

The SHCS screws that I have are magnetic. There does not seem to be much choice out there.

[AndreaGanora]

Yes the anticorodal in in facts the 6061 T-6 , abouth the screws I have to go to the proper shop to get some nylon ones , I'll do that as soon as i can 
To be really  precise I should also change the base material from HDPE to Perspex acrylic , according to Al's specs .

About the pics and the mags alignment I went trough my precious savings  ( from various Al's posts ) and I've found the question about mags i previously refferred to :

korkskrew:@alsetalokin

Could you please recheck the polarity markings on your stators? I think they may be marked opposite of how the rotor magnets are marked.


Checked and doublechecked many times, again just now.
The markings are consistent on all magnets.


The reason I asked is this picture
http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/compare1.jpg

. One would expect the stator to rotate so the opposing poles would be attracted to eachother. In the photo the colored ends are pointing the same direction suggesting that the N pole on one magnet is colored and the S pole on the other magnet is colored.

This is the last I'll say of it. I don't want to be a pest. I'm just trying to build an accurate model in my computer.

P.S. Just out of curiosity, did you read my AGW sync theory? If so, any comment?



So Clanzer and I both made the same mistake, is that what you are saying? No, it looks to me like his markings agree with mine--yes, my picture was taken in motion with flash, I don't know the circumstances of Clanzer's pic. I used the magnetic field visualizing film to identify the location of the poles on the stator magnets and marked the border very accurately. I don't know how accurate Clanzer's marks are or how he determined where the poles are.
Again, I have checked and rechecked the polarity markings on my magnets. They are consistent throughout. All like poles are marked with like colors.
I made no attempt to mark the rotor magnet walls exactly, as I did the stators. The rotor magnets are just marked for polarity. And their markings are consistent.

So now I 'm in doubt if also the pic we are thalking about could have been a flash or  a strobo still pic and therefore the missed alinement could maybe be justified ??

[hdeasy]

@Bruce_TPU

I wonder if you should try moving the dampers around a bit. Sounds like you might be getting something but it is going a bit to fast on entry to sustain (suggestion courtesy of EmeraldSong).

[Yadaraf]

.
@ ALL

RE Rotor diameter question

I'm from the California, so I don't use the Metric system all that much.  As Omni jokingly pointed out to me, Al's rotor diameter is 144 mm by a "fortuitous coincidence."

... Q:  How common is it to choose 144 mm as a design specification?

I think a normal designer would choose 150 mm -- nice, round, exactly between 100 mm and 200 mm.  

... Q:  Any thoughts on how/why Al chose 144 mm?  


Of course, I have a few "non-scientific" thoughts on the dimension.  Given what we know about Al, my thoughts might have credence, but I'm asking whether there is a good scientific or machining basis for the rotor dimension.


Cheers,  

Yada..
.

[Omnibus]

@vipond50,

As I promised you, I just checked the disposition of the stators with respect to the rotor?it?s very similar to what @AndreaGanora has here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg75827.html#msg75827.

I have now the two rigs with me and will do some experiments with both. Later will post at least some soundtracks for @Yadaraf to analyze, if he feels like it.