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[Omnibus]

@vipond50,

OK, thanks. Keep the good work.

[bhaas]

Hi Bill, here's a crazy idea. What if you let that stator spin around the rotor while it's spinning or see what kind of effect you can get.

I got my magnets from K&J, now I just need the setup to put them in. Anyone have one for sale? I figured I'd ask here before I go to machine shops and ask around for pricing. Thanks.

Brad

[AndreaGanora]

Hi guys

Here is the link to the last video I?ve uploaded on my youtube channel

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=TRS4_3F4lpc

It's a collection of different setup pics and some infos about my replication rig plus couple of video cuts about the rig spinning in AGW sinch and generating if not enything else , at list some interesting audio with many frequency changes that will maybe interest those of you that are into sound spectrum analisis , sadly i have no data about the rpms since I don't have jet a tachometer.

Good luck everybody with your projects  

Ciao Andrea,

Fantastic video!  Great looking rig(s).  The tones you get after 05:48 are incredible.     How close were the dogs?

You played country western music in the video.  Nice.  Is that popular in Italy?   

I like your use of rubber bands. I was considering mounting the stator to hard rubber, but rubber bands should do the same.

Keep up the excellent work.  If you get any sustained operation and record it, I'd like to analyze it.

Cheers,   

Yada..
.

@Yada
Thanks alot
I live in a building on the second floor , I had the window open and the dog whas in the street and started barking during couple of tries , but both times he barked only when the higher tones would start.
Country western music is not very popular in Italy , even if there are alot of country music lovers here to .the music tracks I'm using in my videos are choosen between the ones included in the royalty free tracs that came whit my Pinnacle video editing program , so i was glad there whas one I liked .
About the longtherm sustained operation recording , well , the day I'll finally get some be shure You'll get to analyze it , along whit the relative video and all needded infos
About the tones you mentioned, In facts while the rotor is slowing down at a certain rpms i get that acoustic as well as a somehow visual feelling that there is something peculiar about the rig's behaviour , like if the riptimic change in the noise and vibrations could be caused by some little asincrony in the device caused by a little extra push pull of the components, but I guess is just a mind trick from beyng used to correlate higher noise to higher speed or stronger momentum , but it could instead in reality just be L.O.W. ( lods of wobble ) hehehe
The day I' ll get a really clear long term sustain or even better increase in rpm I'm shure there is not going to be much space for this kind of doubts 
Cheers
Andrea

[vipond50]

Hi Bill, here's a crazy idea. What if you let that stator spin around the rotor while it's spinning or see what kind of effect you can get.

I got my magnets from K&J, now I just need the setup to put them in. Anyone have one for sale? I figured I'd ask here before I go to machine shops and ask around for pricing. Thanks.

Brad

Hi Yeah Brad
Well that could get really interesting, a real finger knocker to say the least. I believe I would have to on some armer for that test 
No, nothing for sale yet, but maybe in couple weeks after i get burned out with this project LOL.

B.

[AndreaGanora]

@vipond50
Waw thank for the pics 
Great
keep us informed
Cheers
Andrea

[Yadaraf]

@Yadaraf, @blue_energy and @MeggerMan,

This is a sound sample of my rig with only stator rotating gear wise. I span the rotor by hand as uniformly as I could to keep it at 259rpm (monitored by a laser tachometer). As you can imagine maintaining by hand a constant rpm isn't easy so it fluctuated between values some reaching 280rpm. Nevertheless, it may probably be interesting to see what this will look like in the frequency domain anhd if the recent discussion can explain the fundamental frequencies observed.

Omni,

Is there a chance you can try this again?  The audio is faint and I can't tell what's happening at the low frequencies (i.e. the signal-to-noise ratio is very low).

Q1:  Could you increase the volume by moving closer to the device?

Q2:  Could you provide a baseline at the end -- leave the recorder on for a few seconds and stop the spinning.

My new software allows me capture a baseline spectra and then subtract it from newly acquired spectra.  A good baseline (no spinning, no voice .. quiet as possible) would be very helpful.   

The good news is that it sounds like you were able to maintain a fairly steady RPM -- even if by hand.  KUDOS.


Cheers,   

Yada..
.

[Omnibus]

@Yadaraf,

I'm away from my rig right now but I'll do it in a bit. Your time is 3 hours earlier than mine so I hope at least it won't be in the wee hours at your place. Sorry about that.

[Bruce_TPU]

Evening All,

Quick update on a few things.  I picked up a box of SHCS 4-40  x3/4" for my Stators.  Identical to Al's.
Has anyone beside myself, wonder why Al would use SHCS screws, having to grind down each head, rather than a stainless steel flat head?  Splitting hairs again, perhaps, but one has to wonder why.  Tomorrow afternoon, I grind a few screw heads down.

I also picked up some packets of #4 stainless washers.  Identical to Al's.

I could not find any 4-40 nylon screws, only larger ones.  If anyone finds some online, please post.

I also received in my ABEC 7 Rotor bearings.  I will be testing both.

And of course my rotor did not arrive today.  Perhaps tomorrow.  It should be of the exact weight and size as Al's.

Now, about the Stewart-Warner Bearings.  My bearing guy heard back from them and it turns out that they do not manufacture the bearings, they only distribute them.  The people that Mike needed to speak with were in a meeting.  (of course.)  So Mike will contact them Monday and find out the Manufacturer of the bearings that they distribute.  Then he will contact that Manufacture and order said bearings.  A lot of work, but such is life.  I want a working machine, so will replicate as exactly as possible.   

Cheers,

Bruce

[vipond50]

Evening All,

Quick update on a few things.  I picked up a box of SHCS 4-40  x3/4" for my Stators.  Identical to Al's.
Has anyone beside myself, wonder why Al would use SHCS screws, having to grind down each head, rather than a stainless steel flat head?  Splitting hairs again, perhaps, but one has to wonder why.  Tomorrow afternoon, I grind a few screw heads down.

I also picked up some packets of #4 stainless washers.  Identical to Al's.

I could not find any 4-40 nylon screws, only larger ones.  If anyone finds some online, please post.

I also received in my ABEC 7 Rotor bearings.  I will be testing both.

And of course my rotor did not arrive today.  Perhaps tomorrow.  It should be of the exact weight and size as Al's.

Now, about the Stewart-Warner Bearings.  My bearing guy heard back from them and it turns out that they do not manufacture the bearings, they only distribute them.  The people that Mike needed to speak with were in a meeting.  (of course.)  So Mike will contact them Monday and find out the Manufacturer of the bearings that they distribute.  Then he will contact that Manufacture and order said bearings.  A lot of work, but such is life.  I want a working machine, so will replicate as exactly as possible.   

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi Bruce

Glad to here things are coming together for U. Now if u could check to see how magnetic your SS screws are before and after. Typically manufacture screws are heat treated included SS. With all my work with stainless i.e. 304, 304L, 308, 316 and 316L  grinding  or machining will make them more magnetic. So this being said, if Al ground or machined his 4-40 SC screw head height's they were magnetic to some degree. If a person want to reduce the magnetic effect then they will have to heat treated again. I do this by heating to a cherry red and quickly quenching them in cold water. They will take on a color of dark to black due to the oxidizing atmosphere (air). A true heat treat would be done in a controlled Atmosphere furnace.

Best Regards
Bill

[Yadaraf]

@Yadaraf,

I'm away from my rig right now but I'll do it in a bit. Your time is 3 hours earlier than mine so I hope at least it won't be in the wee hours at your place. Sorry about that.

Omni,

Not a problem.  I bumped up the signal on your original audio and applied a ~100 Hz high pass filter.  It  helped slightly, but I amplified a lot of "noise" as well.  Can't really tell a lot.

Attached is an analysis of your latest audio, but don't read too much into it.

RE 3 hours must put you on the East coast.   


Cheers,   

Yada..
.

[Bruce_TPU]

Evening All,

Quick update on a few things.  I picked up a box of SHCS 4-40  x3/4" for my Stators.  Identical to Al's.
Has anyone beside myself, wonder why Al would use SHCS screws, having to grind down each head, rather than a stainless steel flat head?  Splitting hairs again, perhaps, but one has to wonder why.  Tomorrow afternoon, I grind a few screw heads down.

I also picked up some packets of #4 stainless washers.  Identical to Al's.

I could not find any 4-40 nylon screws, only larger ones.  If anyone finds some online, please post.

I also received in my ABEC 7 Rotor bearings.  I will be testing both.

And of course my rotor did not arrive today.  Perhaps tomorrow.  It should be of the exact weight and size as Al's.

Now, about the Stewart-Warner Bearings.  My bearing guy heard back from them and it turns out that they do not manufacture the bearings, they only distribute them.  The people that Mike needed to speak with were in a meeting.  (of course.)  So Mike will contact them Monday and find out the Manufacturer of the bearings that they distribute.  Then he will contact that Manufacture and order said bearings.  A lot of work, but such is life.  I want a working machine, so will replicate as exactly as possible.   

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi Bruce

Glad to here things are coming together for U. Now if u could check to see how magnetic your SS screws are before and after. Typically manufacture screws are heat treated included SS. With all my work with stainless i.e. 304, 304L, 308, 316 and 316L  grinding  or machining will make them more magnetic. So this being said, if Al ground or machined his 4-40 SC screw head height's they were magnetic to some degree. If a person want to reduce the magnetic effect then they will have to heat treated again. I do this by heating to a cherry red and quickly quenching them in cold water. They will take on a color of dark to black due to the oxidizing atmosphere (air). A true heat treat would be done in a controlled Atmosphere furnace.

Best Regards
Bill

Hi Bill,

That is the best explanation, the one that you give.  And from Al's post's, he would be the kind of guy to do such a thing for that very reason.  As Ken posted earlier, these SHCS Screws are VERY magnetic.  In other words a magnet is easily attracted to them. 

What is cool, in my mind, is how so many things are opposite of what one would think.  The screws, and the steel bearings.

Cheers,

Bruce

[Omnibus]

@Bruce_TPU,

As you know, I agree that it's very, very important to reproduce the device exactly. Again, I'm afraid we still don't know some crucial facts about it. As seen, @alsetalokin disappeared altogether (what else is new) although his presence lately was hardly of any help. If he were a normal researcher he would report back if he's able to still reproduce what we saw in his first video and should try to make a replica of his working device with exact specification and place of origin of the few details this contraption consist of. That's not too much to ask from any researcher let alone from a researcher with such claims. The lack of activity in this respect leaves him open to all kinds of unfavorable for him speculations.

[Yadaraf]

.
RE .. 5th Harmonic

The second higher tone might be the 5th harmonic of the lower tone.  (e.g. 870 Hz is the 5th harmonic of 174 Hz)
 
Earlier I thought the LO and HI dominant tones were related to rotor and stator bearing noise respectively, but now I'm thinking that the lower tone of 174 Hz is from general stator "chatter" and the higher tone is its harmonic.  I don't see how either can be bearing race noise -- much too loud.

I'll collect more data and do a regression analysis on the LO/HI pairs.

... Q1:  What is the significance of a dominant 5th harmonic?

... Q2:  @FunkyJive, what do you know about the 5th harmonic in general?


Cheers,   

Yada..
.

[Omnibus]

@Yadaraf,

Here's the sound bit this time with tails of background. Also, who knows, I've become a little more skilled in turning the rotor by hand so I could keep it almost within 240-260rpm range. Sorry for the delay. And, yes, I'm on the east coast--NYC.

[Yadaraf]

@Yadaraf,

Here's the sound bit this time with tails of background. Also, who knows, I've become a little more skilled in turning the rotor by hand so I could keep it almost within 240-260rpm range. Sorry for the delay. And, yes, I'm on the east coast--NYC.

Omni,

Here you go.  I think the baseline worked well.      Note in the baseline that is a persistent spike.

Not sure what you can conclude, however ...


Cheers,   

Yada..
.