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[bitRAKE]

<shameless ad> I have some 3.3F caps, 2.5 volts (but I've used them up to 3.4 volts).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290087883724

[SPP-48]

@sugra

Thanks for the advice on the transistors. I will look at replacing them with the MPS8099/8599.

@all

The motor was still running when I got to it this evening. The batteries were reading 2.41v after 85 hours. I disconnected and placed them aside while I tried out various other things.

I couldn't understand why I got a very low AC reading on coil1. The Bedini circuit showed a 10 ohm resistor between coil 1 and the transistor. I played with some different values and found that anything between 1K and 50K tripled the AC voltage from coil1 and gave about a 5% increase to the voltage from coils 2 and 3. I settled for 10k.

It still won't run for long without batteries.

I have just reconnected the original batteries and it's merrily chugging away.

SPP-48

[dingbat]

I couldn't understand why I got a very low AC reading on coil1. The Bedini circuit showed a 10 ohm resistor between coil 1 and the transistor. I played with some different values and found that anything between 1K and 50K tripled the AC voltage from coil1 and gave about a 5% increase to the voltage from coils 2 and 3. I settled for 10k.

Did the motor speed change when you increased the resistance?

[pese]

are you shure , that you can read the AC ??
This is not Sine !!
Peaks and Pulses ...
Not to read with AC Voltmeter !

Pese

 

[dingbat]

are you shure , that you can read the AC ??
This is not Sine !!
Peaks and Pulses ...
Not to read with AC Voltmeter !

It would be interesting to see a scope shot of the trigger winding while the motor is running.

[NerzhDishual]

Hi nice & clever Mike_Modified_J_Bedini_Ron_Cole_Motor_Builders!

Sorry, but I have not the time to read all the posts. I have printed out the entire topic and I promise to read it (as soon as possible)...

My 2 cents however....

My silly question is : does anybody succeed to reproduce this (claimed?) self running motor (I mean : with a mere capacitor & *no* battery) ?

For my part, I have now received all the stuff including the trans., the very Crouzet relay the hall probe the magnets, the copper wire the 47 mili_Farad cap,. I had to made 4 different orders at 4 differents suppliers. Tedious and expensive as soon as ou sometimes have a minimum purchase. My aim is to reproduce this device as accurate as possible.

I have already wound a very beautifull (IMHO )) square-shaped bifilar coil, built a wood frame and soldered the circuit. Pictures to come soon.

I'm also making some very simple computer calculations and asking a simple question.
This question is :
According to the vid the 47 mili_F cap seems to be charging up to 6 volts (during a single revolution?)
According to the formula : Vcap= Vsource * (1-e^(t/R*C)) should you not be able to draw some abacus to figure out what the R, the  t and the Vsource could be and if it could match with what is is known about this device?
For example (should I'm not be mistaking): if you charge a 47 mili_F cap with 74 volts(Vsource), through a 10 ohm resistor during 1/25 seconds,  the voltage across the said cap will be 6 volts.
Do you see what I mean? I'm missing something?
My thinking is that this device could actually work but must be very difficult to tune. Manner of the Finsrud device it sounds like a resonant apparatus.

Anyway, now, I have to build the 3th "window" coil, glue my 6 magnets on this plastic tubular rotor, find an axe which will fit my bearings, find an "inertial wheel" (?) and  pray that all these parts are going to do something efficient ).

BTW : should anybody be interested in : I have found the Crouzet Relay at :
http://www.radiospares.fr
command code (code commande) = 3212925

(http://freenrg.info/Bedini/Replications/Crouzet_Relay.jpg)

Best

[helmut]

@helmut

The rechargeable batteries are from my Minidisc player, Sony 1.2v NiMh 2300mAH over 2 years old.

It was still running this morning (75 hours) , although the battery reading was 2.41v. The fluctuating voltage on coil 2 is slightly higher than before at 2.7v AC max.

I have tried spinning the motor faster by hand while running, but it gradually settles back to it?s normal slow pace (I will time it this evening, if it's still running!).

I have looked at getting a 1 Farad super cap, but they are rather expensive. The cheapest at around 100AUD

SPP-48

@SPP-48 As longer as the Motor keep running,as closer we come to a stage,that overunity can not be denied.
About the Batterys i have Ideas as follows.
A cup is like a Battery a storage device.One difference is,that the cup rejekt its Power in another stage of polarity. This might cause a counter power in the arrangement of the trifilar coil.
At the Moment,it looks,that the Battery takes elektrons from the Coil and supplies  the other coil as well.As you report,that after a manualy increase of the speed,the rotor speeds down to the low speed,led me think,that the bigger amplitude does not reach the driving coil. After i think it all ofer,i get the impression,that the required result ist not according to the size of the cup,than to the polarity
The solution might be qite easy to find.
In your Place i would try to make the cup working like the Recharchables do.

One point of a test could be to take a condensator without polarity .

Another test could be to connect a 1:1 transformer in series tu the cup,and closed up with a diode.
About the cups,i would propose to search by google after information to build a cup yourselve at home.As i can read,there are a lot of facilitys.
Regards from Duisburg
Helmut

[devrimogun]

@hartiberlin and all, I could be way off, but sometimes crazy ideas might give a project the push it needs. I got two ideas to mention.

1) We are trying to collect the current from the coils we placed on the stator by moving the magnets on a rotor right? We focus on the moving magnetic field outside of the rotor and never think about the moving magnetic field inside the rotor. Is there a way to add a 4th coil inside the rotor so that we can draw current from it?

2) In all these electromagnetic motors we move the magnets which is a lot of work! We have to overcome the friction of the bearings and air etc. If there would be a way to move the magnetic field the process would have been much more efficient and free from the restrictions of the material world.

Also, would you please take a look at the 25 sec. film in the following link. It might give you geniuses (I mean it) some brilliant new ideas.

http://www.izlee.com/video/hd6cp/

Best regards,
Devrim

[z_p_e]

Mike's scope shots, correctly inverted and time-aligned for better viewing and analysis:

Darren

[z_p_e]

I have modeled the Mike's mod of the BCWM below. This is a different approach, but once a good model is created, detailed analysis of the motor becomes easy to perform.

- The 47000u cap is pre-charged to 6V.
- Vreference is matched to the L1, L2, and L3 phase for easy reference if desired.
- The Hall and SSR is modeled with a sine source and switch with hysteresis.
- Motor rotation and induction is modeled with V1 and L4. This motor can be modeled as a transformer with 3 secondaries.

Darren
PS. Scope shots to come...

[z_p_e]

The scope shots:

Trigger, Drive, D2, Generator.

They aren't a perfect match, but close.

All except D2 are differential measurements, with V+ on high side, and V- on low side. D2 is referenced to GND, and is taken off the top of "Rscope".

S1 is not being triggered in these shots as V2 = 0V.

Darren

PS. Let me know of any suggestions, comments, or measurement requests.

[SPP-48]

One point of a test could be to take a condensator without polarity .

Another test could be to connect a 1:1 transformer in series tu the cup,and closed up with a diode.

@helmut

Thanks for the suggestions I will try them. I also managed to buy (rather cheap) a small 1F supercap 5.5v and a 22F 5.5v that I will be trying (no, it's not a misprint-22Farads).

I disconnected the batteries for the weekend so that I can carry out some structured experiments. The batteries were reading 2.4V, and it took the motor 64 seconds to stop after disconnection from the batteries. The motor has been running on the same batteries for 105 hours.

I have now set up a mechanism which will give the rotor a quick spin and then let go, similar to a hand spin except that it will be consistent. Using this I have started to experiment with different capacitor values and configurations. I have started to notice some interesting results and will post when I have more data.

regards

SPP-48

[SPP-48]

Did the motor speed change when you increased the resistance?

@dingbat

I was running it on a 6V torch battery while experimenting with the resistors and it was going pretty fast anyway, but now that you mention it, I believe it did pick up.

regards
SPP-48

[SPP-48]

are you shure , that you can read the AC ??
This is not Sine !!
Peaks and Pulses ...
Not to read with AC Voltmeter !

Pese

@pese

But will it tell me the difference between many peaks and pulses and a few peaks and pulses.

SPP-48

[gyulasun]

...I'm also making some very simple computer calculations and asking a simple question.
This question is :
According to the vid the 47 mili_F cap seems to be charging up to 6 volts (during a single revolution?)
According to the formula : Vcap= Vsource * (1-e^(t/R*C)) should you not be able to draw some abacus to figure out what the R, the  t and the Vsource could be and if it could match with what is is known about this device?
For example (should I'm not be mistaking): if you charge a 47 mili_F cap with 74 volts(Vsource), through a 10 ohm resistor during 1/25 seconds,  the voltage across the said cap will be 6 volts.
Do you see what I mean? I'm missing something?
My thinking is that this device could actually work but must be very difficult to tune. Manner of the Finsrud device it sounds like a resonant apparatus.

Hi NerzhDishual,

I think your calculations are ok but the charging time you consider 1/25 sec I think is way too rapid. Why do you see the cap charges up to 6V under one revolution;  which is the video you estimated it from?
The video Stefan uploaded in the first post of this thread, didn't it?
( winmotor_full.wmv )   

If we consider a 10 sec time period under which the 47mili_F cap charges up from about 0V to 4.5V (time between 00:12 to 00:22 from the video and the voltage from the meter), then calculation gives about 4.52V source voltage, right? (consider 40 Ohms coil resistance for R value, not 10 Ohms, ok?)

If this is so, then the voltage source is always a few tens of mili_V higher only than the cap voltage and this sounds correct through the 40 Ohms and during the slow charging time, I think.

In other words, I don't think we can say something is wrong / suspicious just from these calculations. It sounds reasonable.  Agree?

Regards
Gyula