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[Forever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2qKRmhWdd8
The above link shows the remote control car in the box. The box is deliberately made longer. The forward velocity or momentum hitting the box is much higher than the backward velocity or momentum hitting the box.
This shows that adjustment should be made to create the maximum unbalanced force generated within the box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bKTurEnJ4g
The above link shows the remote control car pulling the box. This is the most efficient operation. The frictional force is used in the most efficient way.

There is much work needed to get the most efficient configuration and method to create the maximum unbalanced force from within. However, the concept is demonstrated in these experiments. 

[ltseung888]

Dear Forever,

Thank you for performing these two additional experiments.  It is clear that the forward momentum can be controlled to be much higher than the backward momentum.

These are worthwhile experiments.  However, Experiment001 will be more convincing.  You and team will  learn where to buy the material, how to wind and create the electromagnet, the right magnets to use etc.

Take your time and do a good job,

Lawrence

[TinselKoala]

Hopefully, Forever, you will also learn how to do the correct kinds of Control Experiments, and the logic of scientific hypothesis testing.

[Top Gun]

Dear Forever,

In schools and universities, the experiments are set up for you.  Thousands before you have done the same experiment.  You just need to follow the procedures and verify the results.  You do not need to design anything.  You need not be innovative.  Now you and team have to do Experiment001 all by yourselves, you have to decide everything. 

You and team will learn much more in this process.  Share that valuable experience with the World.  Note down everything – including the planning, the juicy arguments, the designing of the experiment, the purchasing of equipment, the unsuccessful attempts and the fun, etc.

I look forward to your posts.  Take your time and do a good job.

[Top Gun]

Dear Tinselkoala,

In order to produce the electromagnet as in Experiment001, you should not use a solenoid.  You should have the copper wire wound on a soft iron core.  The magnetic force will increase with:
(1) Number of turns of copper wire,
(2) Strength of current,
(3) Area of the soft iron core

You can even have a bundle of iron wires as your soft iron core.  Many school experiments use iron nail or iorn bolt.

Hope the above information helps.

Top Gun

[TinselKoala]

Thank you for your advice.
But I must ask, did you not hear, or not understand, or perhaps not believe, the part in the video where I explain that I tried several different core materials? Perhaps I didn't mention soft iron, I cannot recall, but I certainly did try it. The magnets stick quite well to the iron, and current strong enough to dislodge them would melt my apparatus, in addition to magnetizing the iron.
The outcome of the experiment will be the same, however. There is no asymmetric thrust available from this type of apparatus, unless it is allowed to push against a surface with friction.

[Top Gun]

Thank you for your advice.
But I must ask, did you not hear, or not understand, or perhaps not believe, the part in the video where I explain that I tried several different core materials? Perhaps I didn't mention soft iron, I cannot recall, but I certainly did try it. The magnets stick quite well to the iron, and current strong enough to dislodge them would melt my apparatus, in addition to magnetizing the iron.
The outcome of the experiment will be the same, however. There is no asymmetric thrust available from this type of apparatus, unless it is allowed to push against a surface with friction.

Thank you for your clarification.  My understanding of producing an electromagnet is for the copper wire to wrap tightly arround the soft iron core.  That is different from putting soft iron loosely inside a solenoid.  The configuration essentially separates the device into two separate tubes.  I only saw your material move freely within one tube.  Am I mistaken?

The other point I would like to comment is applying asymmettic pulsing to a pendulum.  If the frequency of the pulse is not in resonance with the natural frequency of the pendulum, the magnitude of the swinging would not be higher.  This can be confirmed by anyone skilled in the playground swings.

We can ask Forever and other teams to check out the natural frequency of the pendulum configuration and apply the asymmetric pulse accordingly.

[hansvonlieven]

The other point I would like to comment is applying asymmettic pulsing to a pendulum.  If the frequency of the pulse is not in resonance with the natural frequency of the pendulum, the magnitude of the swinging would not be higher.  This can be confirmed by anyone skilled in the playground swings.

We can ask Forever and other teams to check out the natural frequency of the pendulum configuration and apply the asymmetric pulse accordingly.

G'day all,

Perhaps at this stage it would be of help to point out that if you apply asymmetric pulses to a pendulum it is no longer a pendulum but becomes simply a weighted lever. The inability to distinguish between the behaviour of the two would guarantee an F in O-level physics.

Forever would be well advised to repeat the standard experiments in this area before pontificating on ridiculous propositions.

Pendulum physics, as well as the behaviour of levers, are very well understood by standard science and don't need re-defining.

Hans von Lieven

[Top Gun]

There seems to be some confusion when Tinselkoala failed to perform Experiment001 as defined.  The latest is a weighted lever.

I shall reproduce Experiment001 and compare it with Experiment001b.  In Experiment001b, we take the device and suspend it in a pendulum fashion.  The one-time pulse is applied.  The expected motion of the pendulum is shown.

Experiment001b is easy to perform after Experiment001 has been successfully performed.  Experiment001 is done on a flat smooth, horizontal surface.

Hope this clarifies the Experiments.

[utilitarian]

There seems to be some confusion when Tinselkoala failed to perform Experiment001 as defined.  The latest is a weighted lever.

I shall reproduce Experiment001 and compare it with Experiment001b.  In Experiment001b, we take the device and suspend it in a pendulum fashion.  The one-time pulse is applied.  The expected motion of the pendulum is shown.

Experiment001b is easy to perform after Experiment001 has been successfully performed.  Experiment001 is done on a flat smooth, horizontal surface.

Hope this clarifies the Experiments.

I have a question.  Why are you making it so needlessly complex, if you claim it is so simple.  Why even have the bottom half of the device?  Just pound the ball upwards, and you will not need to "dampen" or "dissipate" anything on the bottom end.  Makes about as much sense as anything else you have written.

[chrisC]

I have a question.  Why are you making it so needlessly complex, if you claim it is so simple.  Why even have the bottom half of the device?  Just pound the ball upwards, and you will not need to "dampen" or "dissipate" anything on the bottom end.  Makes about as much sense as anything else you have written.

Yes, I was thinking about the same too? If a high school kid and her team can replicate this great world shattering discovery, what were the rest of the scientific community thinking. Maybe they all had too much turkey.

Talking about turkeys, I was listening to a news report a few days ago about whether there is any truth about turkeys being literally stupid. So, I found out something I didn't already know about turkeys. If turkeys were out in the open and it started to rain, the turkeys must be herded in otherwise they will just stand out in the rain! So what does the rain do to them? Well, they don't know how to flap their wings to dry themselves and eventually the moisture under their features gives them pneumonia and they die!!

So,what does this have to do with Tseung? Well, Tseung does exhibit similar behavior like those turkeys. He just doesn't get it! 

I wish everyone had a good turkey day, including Lawrence of course.

cheers
chrisC

[Top Gun]

I have a question.  Why are you making it so needlessly complex, if you claim it is so simple?  Why even has the bottom half of the device?  Just pound the ball upwards, and you will not need to "dampen" or "dissipate" anything on the bottom end.  Makes about as much sense as anything else you have written.

Experiment001 is a direct conceptual verification of the flying saucer diagram Flying_Saucer001.  Some people have the misconception that there is no way to generate internal forces in a closed system.  The idea of a propulsion system using unbalanced forces generated from within is against the Third Law of Newton (Action = Reaction).

The Ms. Forever Yuen remote control car videos on youtube and the specific Experiment001 is aimed to prove conclusively that we can indeed generate internal forces in a closed system to influence the motion of the closed system.

Please compare Flying_Saucer001 and Experiment001 diagrams.

*** You idea of simplifying the bottom half indeed works.  The following youtube video already demonstrated it.  The device uses unbalanced oscillation to produce the unbalanced force.
http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=anYxNitcrm0 ***

The race to produce the actual practical flying saucer is on – the theory is clearly revealed now.

[Pirate88179]

Nice video.  The only reason it can move is because it is pushing off against the table.  There are no tables in space. (That I know of)  If that device were suspended in the air, there would be no movement at all.

Bill

[TinselKoala]

Now do the control experiment.
Find a smooth flat level surface. I use a granite surface plate, but you can use that table if it's level.
Get a handful of marbles or bearing balls, all smooth and the same size. Put them down on the level surface.
Get a sheet of glass, or plastic, like from a picture frame. Set it down on top of the marbles.

Now put that same device, shown in the video, down on the glass. Actuate the device.

Report what happens.
Or better yet, video it and let us see it.

Here's the hypothesis: IF Newton is correct, and every action has an equal and opposite reaction, the device shown will move in one direction and THE GLASS PLATE will MOVE IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, and the center of mass of the system formed by the plate and the device, will stay in the same place.
If, on the other hand, the LTLOT is true and REACTIONLESS forces can be generated, the device will move exactly as it does in the above video, but the glass plate will remain motionless. After all, ex hypothesi, nothing is pushing on the plate, is it?

Please note: This is a well-specified, testable, potentially falsifiable hypothesis. Science proceeds by making and testing such hypotheses, not by fooling around with toy cars in boxes.

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting the results of this control experiment.

[Top Gun]

Now do the control experiment.
Find a smooth flat level surface. I use a granite surface plate, but you can use that table if it's level.
Get a handful of marbles or bearing balls, all smooth and the same size. Put them down on the level surface.
Get a sheet of glass, or plastic, like from a picture frame. Set it down on top of the marbles.

Now put that same device, shown in the video, down on the glass. Actuate the device.

Report what happens.
Or better yet, video it and let us see it.

Here's the hypothesis: IF Newton is correct, and every action has an equal and opposite reaction, the device shown will move in one direction and THE GLASS PLATE will MOVE IN THE OTHER DIRECTION, and the center of mass of the system formed by the plate and the device, will stay in the same place.
If, on the other hand, the LTLOT is true and REACTIONLESS forces can be generated, the device will move exactly as it does in the above video, but the glass plate will remain motionless. After all, ex hypothesi, nothing is pushing on the plate, is it?

Please note: This is a well-specified, testable, potentially falsifiable hypothesis. Science proceeds by making and testing such hypotheses, not by fooling around with toy cars in boxes.

I, for one, am eagerly awaiting the results of this control experiment.

Let us get Ms. Forever Yuen and team to do the remote control car experiment on top of a smooth glass plate with marbles underneath.  She can show the new video.  I would expect much more movement of the remote control car in a box than the glass plate.