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[klicUK]

Thanks @klicUK. Will follow your efforts very closely. Wish you a lot of success.

The keyword, it seems, is "fine-tuning". Setting this in motion meets with the general problems such devices have. This one seems technically somewhat easier to replicate. Think about Torbay's, let alone Finrsud's. Stefan and others remember the times when Torbay came to NYC with his device and wasn't able to demonstrate it. He was in NYC for about a week, desperately trying to restore it in a working condition the way he 's had it in Argentina. He couldn't, unfortunately. Why? Now I kind of understand it. There are these tiny adjustments which may slip from the grasp even of the constructor of the device. The device worked in Argentina, it was disjointed while traveling to NYC where under pressure the constructor wasn't able to restore it. Look at the video we discuss here. A tiny adjustment of the stator magnets got it going. The second effort, however, wasn't successful. Even the third try made the rotor turn halfheartedly. This a tricky thing to reproduce as are all the important scientific discoveries. Therefore, one has to approach the solving of this problem as a scientist, systematically and painstakingly studying and reproducing first the conditions under which the working device exhibited the effect. Those of the participants here who have made PhD's in and experimental discipline (Physics, Chemistry etc.) know exactly what I mean. Sometimes it takes years to reproduce an effect even after spending years sometimes to assemble the experimental setup. Garage inventor, of course, has it's place but not always.

Omnibus:

I've playing with magnets long enough to know that it certainly is true that the slightest adjustment can be the difference in success and failure. I'm getting some interesting results with the second build, hopefully finished later today - when other chores are out of the way. The thing is, xpezif's original doesn't seem to be built at all precisely, and he claims to have builtseveral replications. I'm trying hard to replicate this device, but honestly - my feeling is that it is actually a frictionless breaking system.

[Paul-R]

Great observations Sean, you have a keen eye. Perhaps the creator may show it spinning for say 3 mins...after all he did claim it had run alnight.
Once again well done everyone doing replications...I decided not to this time as i was not convinced there was anything there.
Mark

I don't think we can discount it yet, I don't think anyone here knows just how it works.  I tried bending wire into triangular shapes to feel the pull.
The sticky point seems to move to the rear more with that shape, so I will try and come up with a more refined scale and shape of metal.

(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3967/cbsxj8.jpg)

This drawing reminds me of the Calloway V Gate:
Paul.
http://www.fdp.nu/triangle/default.asp

[Paul-R]

Hi fast builders!

OK. At least 3 replications that do not work.
Anyway, mine is slowly going on. I have all the stuff now (even the screws  ).

May I attract your attention on the Xpenzif's screws disposition.
(This is my interpretation).
And also on the fact that the rotor seems not to be 'horizontal':
(http://freenrg.info/MagMotors/XPenzif_Mag_Mot_Under_side.jpg)

Is he deliberately using two opposing force fields, the magnetic field
and the gravity field?
Paul.

[Bruce_TPU]

@ Paul

Looking at that photo, not only is it "tilted" towards the magnets, but with the "off center", there would also be more "weight" moving down the tilt.  Add to that "heavier, downhill slope" is the pull/attraction of the magnets.

So again I would say a definite "yes", he is using gravity both through the tilt and weight to achieve full rotation.  In my mind this lends "credibility" to the design, as it uses the "lead out theory".

Any replication without the above mentioned "gravity" effecting builds, will not be successful.  It must be off centered and also tilted.

Cheers,
Bruce

[klicUK]

@ Paul

Looking at that photo, not only is it "tilted" towards the magnets, but with the "off center", there would also be more "weight" moving down the tilt.  Add to that "heavier, downhill slope" is the pull/attraction of the magnets.

So again I would say a definite "yes", he is using gravity both through the tilt and weight to achieve full rotation.  In my mind this lends "credibility" to the design, as it uses the "lead out theory".

Any replication without the above mentioned "gravity" effecting builds, will not be successful.  It must be off centered and also tilted.

Cheers,
Bruce

@btentzer: don't know what you mean. Although the rotor (hard drive platter) is mounted off the center of a block, it will still spin in a circle. Any gains made from more weight on the down slope is exactly counter balanced when the same weight travels on the upslope. net gain is exactly zero. As far as I can see, If there is an effect on this device, it can only come from the magnets.

[sterlinga]

I've created a sub-page for this project listing the replications that have been attempted thus far.  Feel free to post yours, or to elaborate on the description given for yours at http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Screw-Magnet_Motor:Replications

Of particular note, not mentioned at this forum yet, that I can see, is:

Bossnik -- Enough Joy
Submitted on Oct. 20, 2007

"I have had marginal success replicating this device. I have flattened all screws and positioned them perfectly. I have gotten over 360 degrees of rotation(which I feel is very significant!) I am using an old stepper motor for a mount, but a smoother bearing might do the trick, UNLESS xpenzif's design incorporates the small bits of attraction and repulsion that you notice in a stepper motor when you try to spin it manually. Maybe he staggered the screws to line up somehow with that effect. I PM'd him asking about this and I'll post his response, this could be a key piece of the puzzle."

[eavogels]

Oops, major construction error in my replication. I forgot to flatten the outside heads. Good thing with hot glue: hot air to remove the screws again. Back to the work shop.
Eric

[Omnibus]

@klicUK,

Good luck in your replication. As for frictionless breaking system you mention, this has been a concern with Finsrud's machine too The supposition is that Finsrud's device is just a very efficient redistributor of the initially imparted energy. There are some very simple experiments which can exclude that possibility. Unfortunately, Finsrud hasn't been forthcoming in clarifying that issue. Here in this case, we would have grater possibility to conclusively answer this question after it becomes easily reproducible (this is a much simpler device anyway). Even at this point one may see that such a possibility (the device being just an efficient redistributor of initially imparted energy) is to be excluded--observe, for instance, the slowing down and then accelerating of the rotor etc. However, let's see the reproduction first and then discuss this issue.

[eavogels]

Now I flattened the screws and I mounted them back on the PVC. Sorry to say that I still meet a sticky spot when any screw head is passing a magnet. My replication is still not working.
(I also have to rest the index finger of my left hand after hot glueing the screws a second time.)
Eric.

[desimoni67]

Possible modification for this device....


Instead of gluing the screws on.  Why not screw them in. The process I am thinking about is screwing them all in to the head and then twist each other screw out a little bit more then the previous.   This would also help in testing out a couple of other setups without having to rebuild a new device.  Different configurations to test.  Lowest set screw to highest set screw around the full circumference and also trying lowest to highest that would occur 2, 3 or 4 times around the same circumference

[Pirate88179]

The supposition is that Finsrud's device is just a very efficient redistributor of the initially imparted energy.

That is exactly what I think is going on here.  If you look at the pictures of my device posted earlier, in preliminary tests(read testing before properly completed) I can get 5-7 rotatiions.  I am holding the stationary magnets in my hand and as I approach the cylinder it begins to spin on it's own and if I stop moving my hand closer, the rotation slows and finds equilibrium.  All I am doing is imparting a pulse by moving my hand as in the rotating magnet experiment video I posted some time ago.  At that time, Omnibus said that if I held the magnet ring in a fixed position there would be no rotation, and he was correct.  This was just a low friction device reacting to the impulses of the moving hand.

I am afraid that is what is possibly happening here as well.  Otherwise, why did he not mark the spot where the magnets (stationary) cause rotation and bolt, glue, fix, his magnets there to that spot as opposed to moving it with his hand.  The bearings on a hard drive set up like that, especially if he removed the windings, is very, very low friction.

I too will eagerly await the results of the replicators before deciding one way or the other, but I am leaning in this direction more and more.

Bill

[markdansie]

Dear Sterling,
"I have had marginal success replicating this device. I have flattened all screws and positioned them perfectly. I have gotten over 360 degrees of rotation(which I feel is very significant!) I am using an old stepper motor for a mount, but a smoother bearing might do the trick"

I could show a device that self starts and runs for at least 15 minutes...it appears to be a magnetic motor but isnt.. Sadly this new device would have to run for at least an hour to convince me anything was there as the action of bringing in the stator to the rotor can actually be the driving force itself.

I might also suggest old heads from a vcr make excellent bearings...they can spin for several minutes with the slightest touch.
Mark

[Omnibus]

The supposition is that Finsrud's device is just a very efficient redistributor of the initially imparted energy.

That is exactly what I think is going on here.  If you look at the pictures of my device posted earlier, in preliminary tests(read testing before properly completed) I can get 5-7 rotatiions.  I am holding the stationary magnets in my hand and as I approach the cylinder it begins to spin on it's own and if I stop moving my hand closer, the rotation slows and finds equilibrium.  All I am doing is imparting a pulse by moving my hand as in the rotating magnet experiment video I posted some time ago.  At that time, Omnibus said that if I held the magnet ring in a fixed position there would be no rotation, and he was correct.  This was just a low friction device reacting to the impulses of the moving hand.

I am afraid that is what is possibly happening here as well.  Otherwise, why did he not mark the spot where the magnets (stationary) cause rotation and bolt, glue, fix, his magnets there to that spot as opposed to moving it with his hand.  The bearings on a hard drive set up like that, especially if he removed the windings, is very, very low friction.

I too will eagerly await the results of the replicators before deciding one way or the other, but I am leaning in this direction more and more.

Bill

It doesn't seem so, though, in this case. That's why @xpenzif's device provoked such interest. He should have left it running for a couple of more minutes, however. Hope those who'll reproduce it will show it running longer with that initial adjustment move of the rotor (not push, actually) @xpenzif makes at the beginning.

[markdansie]

@bill
your observations are spot on. I have seen this many times on different devices.
I do appreciate all the replications and ideas put forward here. I remain open minded that something may come of this but at this stage I agree with you unless further evidence is provided. There has been a long history of devices that have failed to be replicated.
the next hurdle if one did run is to see if the magnets loose their power....
Kind Regards
mark

[Omnibus]

Dear Sterling,
"I have had marginal success replicating this device. I have flattened all screws and positioned them perfectly. I have gotten over 360 degrees of rotation(which I feel is very significant!) I am using an old stepper motor for a mount, but a smoother bearing might do the trick"

I could show a device that self starts and runs for at least 15 minutes...it appears to be a magnetic motor but isnt.. Sadly this new device would have to run for at least an hour to convince me anything was there as the action of bringing in the stator to the rotor can actually be the driving force itself.

I might also suggest old heads from a vcr make excellent bearings...they can spin for several minutes with the slightest touch.
Mark

Mark, show it running for 15 minutes while self-starting (and don't run away after that as @xpenzif and all the rest did). That'll do. This is a perpetuum mobile.