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[Omnibus]

So far most of us have succeeded in latching the lone stator AGW. That latching was the "mistake" which @alsetalokin made which he says led him to success. Obviously, however, there something more to it because no one here can yet see the self-sustaining spin despite the AGW latch. My next step will be to exchange the current N42 rotor magnets with N38 and then with N32 ans see if this would make any difference.

[Bruce_TPU]

@ All

Please take a look at the :20 sec mark of this version of the OC MPMM.
Take note, that when Al spins the stator magnet located between the dampers, that the rotor does not spin.  You can also see this at :39 sec mark.

Notice that when he turns lightly, both of the other stator magnets, the rotor also spins.

So, we too want to see this effect with our setup.  Moving the stator between the dampers and the rotor does not spin.  Conclusion:  If it does, our rotor magnets are too strong.

Any thoughts??   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Ck9xC4S44

Cheers,

Bruce

[PolyMatrix]

At the 20 second mark the non-spin you noticed is between the two bar magnets. That is it happens on the sharp end of the octogon.

[Omnibus]

@btentzer,

I forgot whether or not you have a setup yet to play with. If you do you'll see that behavior of the stator magnets immediately. They don't spin uniformly but each one has an extended period of rest while the rotor is moving.

[PolyMatrix]

@Omnibus

In the 6 balls Sinkscience vid it also occurs to me that it is a study in Inertia.

[zapnic]

Re effects and reverse spin.

Sink Science http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFMqPWSpmTY

steven mark device works Little bit like that video?
mmmhh maybe put compass top of that WhipMag and see what happens?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqEd3KHuEHU

[dean_mcgowan]

So far most of us have succeeded in latching the lone stator AGW. That latching was the "mistake" which @alsetalokin made which he says led him to success. Obviously, however, there something more to it because no one here can yet see the self-sustaining spin despite the AGW latch. My next step will be to exchange the current N42 rotor magnets with N38 and then with N32 ans see if this would make any difference.

After that you may want to try different combinations of magnet strengths.
Then possibly adding a pulsed electromagnet somewhere nearby.

And on another issue :
My problem with the measurements given by artificially maintaining the rotor speed is that there is energy constantly being added to the system and therefore it is not a  good representation of the Al effect (if there is one).

Heres one for the conspiracy theorists ...

@All
Assuming it really worked at all. Do you think Al and OC are colluding to halt people from advancing their investigations into the "Whipmag" (still hate the name). ? After all, OC has now retired from the forums.
And Al, well I still cant fathom why they would be in contact after his behaviour though there seems to be no hard feelings. Just doesn't add up to me.

[Omnibus]

@dean_mcgowan,

@overconfident is completely unimportant in this discussion and shouldn?t be mentioned at all. As for @alsetalokin, his behavior has been strange from the get-go. Since, however, the important point is whether or not there?s an effect one has to detach himself from the character issues.  As of now most of us are taking his claims unassuming, honestly trying to replicate what?s shown in the video without any suggestion of fraud (pulsed electromagnet somewhere, hidden motor etc.) Recall that he also explicitly denies such deliberately set hidden energy sources.

As for the spinning by adding external energy, while it?s not the effect claimed, it can give an estimate of the energy produced from within should we be able to observe the acceleration seen in the video. A rotor of a given mass and form requires only a strictly set amount of energy to spin at a certain rpm. Thus if we observe spinning of that rotor at such rpm with no input of energy then we will know the exact amount of energy out of nothing obtained (if the effect seen in the video is real). Call knowing the external energy necessary to spin the rotor at given rpm calibration. Spinning by adding external energy also gives a picture of the behavior of the machine?s various parts and that sometimes may give hints what direction to follow in search of the effect.

[Esa Maunu]

@CLaNZeR,

I got to thinking today, while revising the opening review at PESWiki.

If I were you, seeing how you've had such a hard time getting the spec magnets to work, I'd go back to your interim set-up as shown at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZPI5BwccsA and try to optimize that set-up.

Go with what works.

- - - -

@All,

I've created a shortcut url for the PESWiki OC MPMM open source project home page: http://www.OC-MPMM.com

Hello,

If you have an off center rotation with a magnets,like you see in a video, it means that there is an acceleration effect, because magnets moves with a elliptical path. This means also that the possible charge that is created, radiates because of the acceleration and can form EM patterns around, to collect more charged particles from the environment.

Esa

[Omnibus]

@Esa Maunu,

No, that's not only far-fetched but outright impossible. Radiation, if we can speak of initial charging at all, amounts to loss of energy, not gain.

[dean_mcgowan]

@dean_mcgowan,

As for the spinning by adding external energy, while it?s not the effect claimed, it can give an estimate of the energy produced from within should we be able to observe the acceleration seen in the video. A rotor of a given mass and form requires only a strictly set amount of energy to spin at a certain rpm. Thus if we observe spinning of that rotor at such rpm with no input of energy then we will know the exact amount of energy out of nothing obtained (if the effect seen in the video is real). Call knowing the external energy necessary to spin the rotor at given rpm calibration. Spinning by adding external energy also gives a picture of the behavior of the machine?s various parts and that sometimes may give hints what direction to follow in search of the effect.

I think you miss my point with regard to the fact the magnets would be acting to contribute a breaking effect to the system as opposed to an acceleratory (if there is such a word) force as seen in Al's model and that I believe may be a rather different anomaly and would exhibit different attributes. Something akin to advancing the timing on a distributor.. though i know little about cars also.

Still cannot comprehend why an individual would want to stand in the way or refuse to support a development such as this. I can think of different motivations, however they don't really match the character profiles displayed by the co inventors.

[Esa Maunu]

@Esa Maunu,

No, that's not only far-fetched but outright impossible. Radiation, if we can speak of initial charging at all, amounts to loss of energy, not gain.

I am talking about the shape of the created pattern, that is able to collect energy from the environment, if that pattern is in a correct form.

Esa

[Omnibus]

@dean_mcgowa,

Again, there are no co-inventors. @overconfident has in fact no role in this. If real, credi should go solely to @alsetalokin. These ideas aren?t new. New would be to have someone produce a working model in flesh and blood. That?s the real contribution.

As for the reasons for @alsetalokin?s strange behavior, he has given explanations (mostly revolving around his employer and his paycheck), there have been various speculations. Undoubtedly, he has damaged his reputation beyond repair. However, that?s not the issue. The issue is whether or not this effect is real and can be reproduced. This machine should be analyzed as is, the character issues being outside of the factors having anything to do with its functioning.

As for the point you?re making, you?re right that the effect, if real, would be due to reasons other than the reasons why a rotor would spin due to external energy input. However, that a disc of a given mass and form must have only a certain amount of energy imparted to it in order to spin at a given rpm is an undeniable fact. That fact won?t change no matter how the observed rpm were reached and what attributes were achieved in accomplishing said rotation.

[Omnibus]

@Esa Maunu,

No, that's not only far-fetched but outright impossible. Radiation, if we can speak of initial charging at all, amounts to loss of energy, not gain.

I am talking about the shape of the created pattern, that is able to collect energy from the environment, if that pattern is in a correct form.

Esa

Unless you propose a concrete model, that sounds frivolous.

[Esa Maunu]

@Esa Maunu,

No, that's not only far-fetched but outright impossible. Radiation, if we can speak of initial charging at all, amounts to loss of energy, not gain.

I am talking about the shape of the created pattern, that is able to collect energy from the environment, if that pattern is in a correct form.

Esa

Unless you propose a concrete model, that sounds frivolous.

It is a question of the nested, cylindrical EM fields around the device, that are able to collect charges from the environment. Every inner cylindrical EM field is little closer than the next outer field. When phase changes in a field, the charge moves towards the center of the system. To create such a fields, we need to have a prime numbers ( 1, 3, 5, 7 etc ) of the sending units around. This way it is not possible to create subharmonics patterns, but harmonic patters are possible and those harmonic patterns exists in a distance 2 x radius , 3 x radius etc, around the device.

Esa