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[baroutologos]

Hey Mumble,

It is adviced before theorizing to have a look at this thread's findings from replicators as well as read the original thread regarding Mr T's findings and then compile an understanding.

I have some experimenting hours on my own, with a dozen of coils and much more combinations, and still cannot fully compehend the phenomenon.

Bear in mind, two fully explored things.

* When we say acceleration under load, we mean under short, not a real load. If any considerable load capable of extracting real energy is put to the system. System demonstrates Lenz' law action as expected.

Still, the mediocre energy extraction that can be applied via a ohmic or any load till coil leave the speedup mode and exhibits normal Lenz law action, is lower (til now) that the core losses of the system.
Thane presented some findings supporting the contrary, but results are quite marginal, well inside any measurement mistake.

** The phenomenon is NOT frequency and inductunce depended. Its actually frequency and coil's turns depended. Coils turns could be made from one wire or many wires, series or parallel connected with same results so as rotor speedup concerns.

Regards,
Baroutologos

[minde4000]

@Baroutologos

It need some 20-22awg LARGE coils with closed magnetic loop but I dont think that will change anything.

I have found that shorted coils act like "infinite" capacitor. Charges upon magnet approach and discharge when magnet moves away. I do not see any point where that "extra" energy would come from into the system. Where and why would some sort of amp or voltage amplification should occur?

Also I had LCR circuit setup when coil was inductor in current node  and cap was in voltage node. I would like to 180 opposite to use coil  as a capacitor and transformer as inductor to get them to LCR and see what happens (maybe coil will get pealed off this time  ). Need large transformer with high inductance.
 

Minde

[supermuble]

Have you studied the adams motors?

I read an article where a person did many tests and verified acceleration with high inductance medium RPM, or low inductance high RPM.

baroutologos, I am not sure what you mean, "more turns of wire..." More turns of wire = higher inductance. Inductance is just the strength of the magnetic field created by a given coil of wire. The acceleration effect doesn't work with hollow air core coils, so obviously inductance is part of the equation.

I am beginning to feel sad since nobody here is really saying anything that makes sense. If you have something scientific to say, then I would love to learn.

I am experimenting everyday, that's part of learning.... Please don't insult me because I am only trying to learn.

 

[LarryC]

Yes supermuble, this came out in response to a request by Kator back on pages 24/25, posts 238,239,245,248,249.

Ron

Hi Ron,

I'm not familiar with the your Syscomp Oscilloscope, but if the same units (1V) for Channel A were displayed on my oscilloscope it would indicate that the V on the scope was going from +3 to -3 V. That would be very low for a HV coil, but appropriate for a HC coil.

Also, the timebase shows 1ms, which would mean that peak to peak is 4ms. So that would be 250 peak to peak per second or 15,000 per minute. So if you have 18 magnets at 1000rpm then it would pass at 18,000 times per minute. This seems below the threshold rpm for the acceleration effect.

Please enlighten me.

Thanks, Larry

 

[baroutologos]

@Mumble,

Perhaps you are right Mumble.
If self-inductunce is depended only on mumber of turns, no matter:
 
*the turns are series connected i.e. one wire @ 1000 turns or 2 wires(biffilar) at 500 turns series connected (adding voltages)
or
*parallel connected as in my latest experiements i.e 10 wires (Litzed) at 100 turns (adding amperage)
Then self-inductunce is the one part of the equation. The other is frequency for sure.

And yes, i have studied many motors. Many of them exhibit the speedup effect. It's well observed. Anyway, in our setups, so far the effect does not actually helps in gaining any surplus energy out. I have focus my studies that maybe the solution lies to the usage of caps, we see. (If you have studied some OU setups/patents, caps for collecting output are always there)

@Minde

Yes Minde, you are right about the feeling!! Shorted coils in Perepeteia setup (apart from the speedup part) behave as infinite capacitor!
With one small difference. The coil is a coil and not capacitor. Neither my 10 fillar low voltage accellerating coils have any special capacitance to claim so.

Regards,
baroutologos

[wattsup]

@Baroutologos

It need some 20-22awg LARGE coils with closed magnetic loop but I dont think that will change anything.

I have found that shorted coils act like "infinite" capacitor. Charges upon magnet approach and discharge when magnet moves away. I do not see any point where that "extra" energy would come from into the system. Where and why would some sort of amp or voltage amplification should occur?

Also I had LCR circuit setup when coil was inductor in current node  and cap was in voltage node. I would like to 180 opposite to use coil  as a capacitor and transformer as inductor to get them to LCR and see what happens (maybe coil will get pealed off this time  ). Need large transformer with high inductance.
Minde

Exactly why I recommended as previously to add a second coil on the first coil, but only wound near the magnet rotor and put in series with the bigger coil. When the magnet approaches the bigger coil has enough turns to be well charged, but when it discharges with aim to aid in the rotor rotation, the discharge happens in the total coil meaning 80% of the discharge is happening to far away from the rotor magnets. The idea behind adding a coil of let's say 16 awg and 30 turns or more on about 1/2" on the bigger coil magnet end, then to put it in series with the bigger coil is that when the magnet approaches, the smaller coil will not have enough wind to really charge from the magnet passage, but it will have less resistance to receive the bigger coils discharge and hence concentrate that discharge energy to be closest to the rotor magnet.

Or instead of winding it on the existing bigger coil wind it on a smaller diameter and place it on the next magnet position of same polarity (but no core) so it is alone in that position and placed closest possible to the magnet passage. Capture with the bigger and concentrate it with the smaller.

@LarryC

Very good observation.

[i_ron]

Could you explain more simply what happens in the coil core?

Normally when the north pole of the magnet approaches the core a south
pole is generated in the core.

Ignoring Lenz for a moment...

the magnet is attracted in but retarded on the withdrawal. (no gain)

With a shorted coil, a north pole is generated on approach which retards
the approach but expedites the withdrawal. (still no gain)

The search should be then for the optimum condition that would let it approach unshorted and be shorted at TDC or some similar method to
actually drive the rotor.

I attempted this with diodes but shorting at TDC caused the full polarity
change for both halves of the cycle and so I was defeated....

Possibly there "might" be a certain speed... a certain inductance... where
more than just core loss reduction is exceeded... but as yet no one has
hit that mark or published actual numbers that can be replicated.

Ron

[supermuble]

Ok, so coil polarity changes 180 degrees when shorted? That means my diagrams are exaggerated, but they aren't wrong. If the shorted coil reverses it's current, then Lenz's law is effectively inverted. I imagine that at extremely high speeds (explosive speeds), the phase change has to be more extreme. That's why I drew the diagram. Inductors do not behave the same way at all speeds, and of course, a certain speed can be reached where the coil cannot respond in an equal and opposite way. We already know this.

If you find that Lenz's law behaves DIFFERENTLY at different speeds, it means that you can change Lenz's law. This is a clear violation of the law of conservation of energy, and it is a great starting point. To me, it is all the proof we need.

Anything is possible. Just because it hasn't been proven doesn't mean it isn't possible. Everything is possible. Limitations serve no purpose except to make people feel smart.

[baroutologos]

@I_ron,

Hello,
i have carefully read the pics you posted and i am a bit confused.
What is the bottom line of your findings regarding a coil's behaviour in Perepiteia mode, when:
* unshorted
* shorted
* under load that restricts current

Can you explain it in simple term, since i naver possessed a scope and not be accustomed to its terminology?

Regards,
Baroutologos

ps: it seems after all, that i can use your help

[supermuble]

I have a few questions.

You did not talk about current in this explanation at all. Current is what makes the magnetic field, not voltage, right?

Your explanation at the end makes no sense whatsoever, at least not to me. No offense. How can the external field be reduced, and core drag reduced, and then Lenz's law drag INCREASED. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

If you short a coil, you have a stronger external field, and stronger magnetic drag because of Lenz's law. It's pretty simple.

[baroutologos]

Thank you very much I_ron for the lively presentation of what happens between a magnet and  a coil!

Ok i am not that noob. I know the basics. I just wanted to know your findings regarding the discrepancies observed between a shorted coil and a loaded coil in "Perepiteia" mode.

It seems like we deal with some kind of mystery, yet.
Apart form voltage creation. When coil is shorted a smooth, Lenzless, action is present.
When loaded, this smoothness goes away, drag manifests that is proportional to real load applied and have to pay each watt out.
Reasons still unknown for that. Neither coil's turns help to offset this from happening.
Anyway, thanks again

Regards,
Baroutologos

[CRANKYpants]

Now contrast that with the erroneous statement made earlier by the inventor…

Can you see the discrepancy? What I have stated can be verified, by you or anyone. It is common sense. It just IS. You don’t need a scope… just an analog meter will do, connect your meter to the coil/core lying on the bench and rapidly move a neo up to it. The meter will give a blip and stop when you stop. Zero motion equals zero induced voltage. Now pull the neo quickly away from the coil/core and you should see a blip in the opposite direction. Exactly as I have stated.

I will let Thane have the final word…

Regards, Ron

THERE CAN NEVER BE ANY "REAL" FINAL WORD WHEN DEALING WITH A CLOSED MIND.

Zero motion equals zero induced voltage

THIS CORRECT INFORMATION - IT JUST DOES NOT APPLY IN ANT WAY AT ALL - IT IS LIKE A GRADE 1 STUDENT TRYING TO EXPLAIN - QUANTUM PHYSICS - YOU ONLY GET TINY FRACTION OF THE WHOLE STORY.

NOW REPEAT YOUR EXPERIMENT WITH:

1) A SHORTED HIGH VOLTAGE COIL
2) ABOVE THE CRITICAL FREQUENCY
3) SUCH THAT THE INDUCED VOLTAGE IS STORED IN THE COIL'S PARASITIC CAPACITANCE
4) BECAUSE THE COIL'S IMPEDANCE DOES NOT ALLOW CURRENT TO FLOW.

A CORRECT EVALUATION IS BOTH ABOVE YOUR UNDERSTANDING AND DESIRE - IN FACT IF YOU TRULY HAD THE DESIRE (AND AN OPEN MIND) THE UNDERSTANDING WOULD EVENTUALLY FOLLOW - THAT IS METAPHYSICS - SOMETHING ELSE YOU CLEARLY DON'T UNDERSTAND EITHER.

THAT'S MY "NOT SO-FINAL" FINAL WORD.

T

[i_ron]

Ok i am not that noob. I know the basics. I just wanted to know your findings regarding the discrepancies observed between a shorted coil and a loaded coil in "Perepiteia" mode.



Regards,
Baroutologos

Baroutologos,

Yes, I have followed your work and know you have a good understanding.
My little little "coil/magnet 101" was for the many on the list that seem to be a bit unclear as to what is happening and let statements, like my quote, go unchallenged.

Keep up the good work,

Ron

[i_ron]

I have a few questions.

You did not talk about current in this explanation at all. Current is what makes the magnetic field, not voltage, right?

Your explanation at the end makes no sense whatsoever, at least not to me. No offense. How can the external field be reduced, and core drag reduced, and then Lenz's law drag INCREASED. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

If you short a coil, you have a stronger external field, and stronger magnetic drag because of Lenz's law. It's pretty simple.

Super,

It is a complex reaction taking place and you are quite correct, current flow is of prime importance. But in the interests of laying a basic ground work that we could build on I kept the explanation as simple as possible. As you know, voltage is a first necessity, first you have voltage, then current can flow.

I felt comfortable in leaving out current as I had already posted the resultant flux field between a shorted and unshorted coil previously.
This confirms what I said, that the field reverses and is reduced at the same time, for a shorted coil.

I did the experiment one time also with a single HV shorted coil with a sense coil winding over top of the HV winding. The external field is/was
practically nonexistent.  Just do the experiment. I will accept different results as long as the conditions are stated.

Two and three were answers to separate questions, are you running them together?

Ron

[CRANKYpants]

@ ALL,

I-RON HAS HIS OWN THREAD NOW - FOR HIS DISCUSSION AND TEST DATA.

ANY POST NOT PERTAINING DIRECTLY TO REPLICATION OF THE GENERATOR OR TRANSFORMER WILL BE REMOVED MONDAY. TO PRESERVE THEM I SUGGEST CUTTING AND PASTING.

T