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Author Topic: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect  (Read 715388 times)

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #570 on: February 20, 2013, 11:04:57 PM »
Thanks HT. You have added to my meagre knowledge ;+}


DC.


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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #570 on: February 20, 2013, 11:04:57 PM »

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #571 on: February 20, 2013, 11:07:22 PM »
Thanks HT. You have added to my meagre knowledge ;+}


DC.

Glad to help
Cheers

Offline Newton II

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #572 on: February 22, 2013, 03:29:58 PM »

Take a look at this video from MrAnguswangus




Magnetic flux can travel through only certain  distance of length through any magnetic material.   That is the reason why magnetic material like iron or steel is used as magnetic shielding materials since they absorb the flux and limit their distance of flow (length wise).   If you use a very lengthy core,  the magnetic flux of the rotory magnet will be absorbed at the beginning of the core itself and this flux will not reach the coil at all.     In that case  you have to use very strong magnets to pump the flux through out the core.   For that you have to use very huge magnets. ( in the above said video the experimenter has used set of huge magnets).   For rotating huge magnets  you have to supply more input power to the motor.   With all that even if the generator produces acceleration under load the power out put cannot be more than the power input.

In any of the generators showing AUL,  can out put of the generator be fed back to the motor making the unit  perpetual ?   If not what is the use of AUL?


Have a look at this wiki page :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perepiteia

As per this wiki page critics say that acceleration under load may indicate only higher effeiency or it is attained at the expense of torque.  Which means when rotor accelerates it loses its torque and there will not be any considerable gain in output.

Is there any relationship between torque and speed characteristics of a motor?   Can somebody expalin things correctly?







 

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #572 on: February 22, 2013, 03:29:58 PM »
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Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #573 on: February 23, 2013, 01:22:17 AM »

Is there any relationship between torque and speed characteristics of a motor?   Can somebody expalin things correctly?


There is definitely relationship between torque and speed of a motor.   Torque is inversely proportional to the speed of the motor shaft.

Here is the copy of  personal message which I had sent to  Deepcut  since I felt  that he is very much interested in this experiment.   I don't claim that what I  have written is 100% correct but still it can throw some light on the subject.

Quote :

I saw few videos showing 'acceleration  under load'  effect in which they are using one DC motor, one generator with           
some  adjustments in coil or core.    This  generator  gains  speed  of about 200 to 300 RPM when connected to load.   I           
don't  think  this is of  any practical  use because  the  out put of the generator will still be lesser than the input to the           
motor.   If you feed the output of generator back to the motor,  the system will not become perpetual.           
           
           
As for my knowledge goes there are two types of DC motors.   One is torque motor and the other is speed motor.           
           
In a torque motor  the  stator magnets  will  be of lesser  strength  inorder  to limit the back emf in the rotor winding.           
This motor develops high torque with less speed.           
           
In a speed motor the stator  magnets will be very  strong  which produces high speed of the rotor with lesser torque.           
Even a small force is enough to stop this rotor.           
           
In most of the videos demonstrating accelerating effect,   I  have observed  that they  have used torque motors.  This           
raises  (accelerates)  the speed of  rotor  under load to a  small  extent  about 200  to 300 RPM because torque motors             
are not designed to run at higher speeds.           
           
I conducted  this experiment using a  speed motor.    For this,  I  had to  remove  the  existing  weak  magnet from the           
DC  motor  and replace   it  with strong,  thick  magnets  without enclosure.  Once you convert torque motor to speed           
motor,  it cannot run under high torque.   So  it cannot withstand lenz's forces produced in the generator under load.           
To compensate  this,  I  reduced  the  gap  between  the  cores  so  that  the  strength  of  the  output current from the             
generator goes down thereby reducing the lenz's forces.             
           
Then I  coupled  the speed motor with generator having minimum gap between successive cores.    I raised the speed           
of  motor to a critical speed by using power from a DC source.   When I shorted the output terminals of the generator,           
the generator  rotor  developed  tremendous  speed  with  huge noise causing vibration of the entire setup and to an             
extent it vibrated the table also.      The  difference  beween  noload  speed  and speed under load was few thousand             
RPMs.           
           
If you use   a  larger diameter   rotor in generator,  it  developes  a very  strong  torque at center with very high speed.           
This  entire  setup  of  motor  and  generator  can be  used as a  single  motor  unit and  torque output from this motor           
unit has to be coupled with standard, conventional generator to get standard AC / DC power output.           
           
Incase  if  you  don't get  sufficient  torque  output  in  one  unit,   you may have to use several such units with torque           
from preivious  one  coupled  to  successive  one  with  slightly  widened  gap  between  the  cores  and  you  have to           
feed the torque output from the last unit to a standard generator.               
           
The final  usable   power  output  has  to  be  got  from a standard  generator only.    Any modification of the standard             
generator  will  not  produce  the required   strong power output.     These  standard  generators  have  evolved  from           
decades of research work and they donot have any drawbacks.             
           
It is all not that easy as Mr.Thane Heins thinks.   I don't think that his bicycle will ever run!           
           
I  had  posted  this  experiment  in OU.com  under  following link.   In  that I  have  not  mentioned  that  I  have  used             
a speed motor.             
           
http://www.overunity.com/10774/over-unity-by-reaction-helping-action/msg287484/#msg287484           
           
           
Sorry for my clumsy english.   I hope you will understand what I have written.     Waiting for reply.           
           
Regards,           
           
Vineet.K. 
Unquote       

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #574 on: February 23, 2013, 02:23:50 PM »
I'll tell you what use i think AUL will be, when i get there (if i get there!).

Say our rotor does 2000 RPM for 10 watts of power when there is no AUL coil assembly present, just a rotor with no coils/cores.

Then we present our shorted coil assembly to the rotor, the rotor does 2,100 RPM and draws 9 watts.

That is what i am aiming for, a coil that accelerates the rotor beyond its no-coil speed.

The last coil i tried weighed 2 pounds, had an inductance of over 10 Henries and a resistance of a couple of hundred ohms, it's time constant was around 28ms.

When i presented this coil to the rotor the speed dropped by5 hertz and the input current rose by only 5mA.

My point is, each time i use a better coil (high inductance/low resistance) the results are getting better and better, i can only assume that a 3lb coil will extend the performance graph in the direction it's been going : up :)

Obviously there's lots i don't know, i'm not trained in nor do i have any expertise in things electric/electronic, so i can only go on what i see in my hands.

Also, the AUL effect doesn't break any laws of physics, if we believe Thane's model it uses the CEMF, so you are using the 'equal and opposite reaction', not negating it.

I am extending my DC motor-driven version to allow for longer coils (200mm) :

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/side_zps3fe5faeb.png)

The thing is only half-built at the moment as i am awaiting more parts, the wooden base will be replaced by acrylic, the plastic coil-former barrel is on the right, it is 200mm long :

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/AULtwinrotor_zps1eb4cc07.jpg)

12 magnets and 6 coils :

(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff437/deepcut71/Energy%20Experiments/planview_zps45f39ebd.png)

Cheers,

DC.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #574 on: February 23, 2013, 02:23:50 PM »
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Offline Newton II

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #575 on: February 23, 2013, 04:37:46 PM »


@Vineet.K.


You are first converting torque motor to a speed motor.  Then you are reducing the gap between the cores of a standard generator to reduce lenz's forces.  Then you  are suggesting to use a bigger diameter rotor to get mechanical advantage from weak lenz's forces.   Obviously this cannot produce reuired torque output for overunity in one stage.   So you have to do it in several stages each time slightly widening the gap between the cores of  respective generator to get stronger lenz's forces hence stronger torque.

Think that you will get required torque output for overunity after ten such stages then what would be the total length and total weight of the entire set?   What would be its total cost? 

Suppose Mr.Thane Heins connetcs this entire  motor - generators  set to his bicycle,  he has to provide one separate lorry to carry this motor - generator set .  Is it not? 
 

@Deepcut,

Quote :

Say our rotor does 2000 RPM for 10 watts of power when there is no AUL coil assembly present, just a rotor with no coils/cores.

Then we present our shorted coil assembly to the rotor, the rotor does 2,100 RPM and draws 9 watts.

End of quote


I don't think it is the correct test for overunity.    May be you are trying to make a energy effiecient device.   A tungston bulb consuming 40 watts gives lesser light than set of LED bulbs consuming just 15 watts.  But this doesnot prove any overunity.


I want to see a motor-generator set in which power generated in the generator is fed back to the motor and this set runs on its own without consuming energy from any external source.   Can anybody show such a device?




 
 





 

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #576 on: February 23, 2013, 06:16:03 PM »

@Vineet.K.


You are first converting torque motor to a speed motor.  Then you are reducing the gap between the cores of a standard generator to reduce lenz's forces.  Then you  are suggesting to use a bigger diameter rotor to get mechanical advantage from weak lenz's forces.   Obviously this cannot produce reuired torque output for overunity in one stage.   So you have to do it in several stages each time slightly widening the gap between the cores of  respective generator to get stronger lenz's forces hence stronger torque.

Think that you will get required torque output for overunity after ten such stages then what would be the total length and total weight of the entire set?   What would be its total cost? 

Suppose Mr.Thane Heins connetcs this entire  motor - generators  set to his bicycle,  he has to provide one separate lorry to carry this motor - generator set .  Is it not? 
 

You are absolutely right.    Achieving  overunity  is not so easy.   Atleast as for my knowledge it has to be done in stages.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #576 on: February 23, 2013, 06:16:03 PM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #577 on: February 23, 2013, 06:47:08 PM »
If you have a coil that adds to the rotor speed and subtracts from the input current, compared to the rotor running free, then you have OU if many coils are used.


DC.


Offline synchro1

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #578 on: February 24, 2013, 12:07:13 AM »
If you have a coil that adds to the rotor speed and subtracts from the input current, compared to the rotor running free, then you have OU if many coils are used.


DC.

Not so simple. Multiple coils split the output along with the Lenz delay effect.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #578 on: February 24, 2013, 12:07:13 AM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #579 on: February 24, 2013, 02:00:35 AM »
OK well i haven't gone beyond single-coil testing so i hear you :)

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #580 on: February 24, 2013, 02:02:22 AM »
Just wquickly thinking (whikle drunk) multiple coils connected share properties, but what if the shorted overspeed coil is used to offset a pure gen coil ?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #580 on: February 24, 2013, 02:02:22 AM »
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Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #581 on: February 24, 2013, 02:02:45 AM »
That's a shit thought, must not post when drubnk :)

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #582 on: February 24, 2013, 02:03:55 AM »
Thane's way was the hybrid coil, thick diameter but many, many turns. I calculated his coils on the multi-magnet rorotr AUL device weighed nine pounds.


Offline Newton II

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #583 on: February 24, 2013, 04:03:12 PM »
Thane's way was the hybrid coil, thick diameter but many, many turns. I calculated his coils on the multi-magnet rorotr AUL device weighed nine pounds.


What happenned to Thane Heins?  What happenned to his 7000% efficiency transformer?  Is it available in the market?

Offline DeepCut

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Re: Confirming the Delayed Lenz Effect
« Reply #584 on: February 24, 2013, 04:55:32 PM »

What happenned to Thane Heins?  What happenned to his 7000% efficiency transformer?  Is it available in the market?

Naudin recently confirmed the BITT as an OU device.

Heins is working with an electric vehicle company to install his regenx technology in their cars and bikes.


DC.

 

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