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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 1920854 times)

Offline JohnMiller

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2115 on: April 30, 2015, 06:51:55 PM »
Electrical steel:
It is rolled sheet metal (never rods) and the grains (polycrystaline structure) are optimized for magnetic conductivity and low residual magnetism. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_steel BTW: It is very difficult to machine.
But please do not think, that cheap Chinese transformers are made out of such material.
Even electrical steel will have some small so called remanence -> residuing megnetism. That is normal. Do not worry. Bedini uses welding rods and even they have remanence.
edfagan have soft magnetic alloys. But I do not think specialized materials are necessary. I have some annealed soft iron wires available.
John

Offline RandyFL

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #2116 on: April 30, 2015, 11:51:35 PM »
Hello All

John
The iron that I bought from Ed Fagan came in a 1/2 inch rod and I had a friend with machinists tools ( Lathe ) square it and its now alittle larger than 3/8th inch thick and was cut to make 7 transformers...In my enthusiasm I sloppily wrapped 100 turns on the primaries and 50 turns on the secondary of 28 gauge magnet wire to see what would happen and got very poor results...after that I realized I never had gaps in the iron...
I'm satisfied with the iron I have but whats your view of the gaps and whats needed to jump the gaps

RandyFL

Offline a.king21

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NRamaswami
You belong to that dying breed of men who are honorable and honest.
It is refreshing to see your sincerity and experimentation on this forum.
I can  also assure you that if you built a 1 kw device there would be many on this forum who would purchase such a device.


I have spoken to Patrick Kelly many times and he would purchase a working device also.


Please don't be downhearted by bad people. They hide behind internet names and think they are anonymous.
They can easily be tracked down, as we all can.
I think you have made a great contribution to the Figuera thread by working with early 20th century type materials.
It is an art long forgotten in the affluent West I am afraid.







Offline NRamaswami

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I am honored and do not have words to express my gratitude.

Fortunately I started without any knowledge and realized how to make manets and understand them is the first task. When I understood that other xperiments followed. But this was very expensive and labour costs are very high. I have not done many experiments that are needed to be done. But the economy ois down here and I have to focus on practice. I will share what little I observed with replicators through personal messages. For the moment let me take a vacation for a month and then come back if I am able to raise finances to do any experiments.

I am very obliged for the very kind words.

Regards

Ramaswami

Offline JohnMiller

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...I'm satisfied with the iron I have but whats your view of the gaps and whats needed to jump the gaps...
RandyFL
@RandyFL:
- Nramaswami talked of gaps between coils. Another time he stated that he has no gaps in the steel except when he had a break of length and continued with another rod. He obviously hammered last ones into the pipe in order to get them press fit.

- Be careful with square rods being machined! Round ones have few area where they contact and come with oxidized surface. So few eddy currents can flow between rods. If you pack square rods being machined recently you will have perfect electrical contact and perfect eddy currents. Those differences can possibly make a replication useless. In your case I would like to paint them before assembly. You may buy black paint for exhausts being resistant up to 400°C.

@ALL:
- I verified the dimensions of the core. Patrick has it correct in his book. Other dimensions were discussed in early stage but are not valid now. No gaps in the iron material provided!

- Currently verifying the wingdings. Some hints are missing there. My current calculation gives about 1200m (56 kg) of wire. (4 square mm copper = 2.5 mm diameter = 4 mm diameter including PVC insulation). This wire can be bought in 100m rings or 500m spools. I will come back with data required. Give me some days of study and communication. (about 200 contributions submitted by Nramaswami!)

- Please understand and accept if Nramaswami needs a break. He gave much more of his life and money many of us will ever dare to.
Rgds
John

Offline JohnMiller

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Primary P1:
Wire:                  4 square mm (ca. 2.5 mm diameter) multistranded
Layers:               3 tight packed  continuously wound: e.g. left -> right / right -> left / left _> right
                           It is recommended to start at outer end and finalize at inner end of coil
                           in order to have a short connection to the center coil.
Turns per layer: Maximum 92 possible at original setup
Turn direction:   Does not  matter. But ALL winds following shall be performed in SAME direction. 

Note:
- I will clarify the outer diameter of the original cable (seems to be about 5mm)
- Magnet wire gives less or no performance as the thickness of insulation matters. This fact is not understood but was experienced.
- In Europe (220V mains) the cable specified has an outer diameter of 4.2mm and is specified up to 1000V (but not to touch!!!). For 110V regions please check the conditions and post please!
With this 220V cable about 108 turns per layer should be possible.
- I strongly recommend to add to the wires between screw terminals and coils a sleeve out of plastic material (e.g. PVC hose from fishkeeping shop or silicon hose). Norms specify that for safety reasons two independent insulation layers need to be applied if a cable can possibly be touched.  And we shall not argue on how many bucks a life is worth!!!!
- Prepare to mount terminals in a plastic case (e.g. like hoaushold plastic boxes) if you have no professional and certified boxes available. This measure is requested by safety norms as well. Rationale like above.

                                                                                 ~o0o~

Offline JohnMiller

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2.5" core
Material:                    soft iron rods
Diameter:                  6 mm
Rods in a 2.5 " tube: 60
Total length of rods: 73.15m
Weight:                     ca. 16kg

Note:
- Rods come usually coated with iron oxide because of production process. Do not attempt to remove the iron oxide. This measure will increase eddy currents (losses) considerably.
- Last few rods may be hammered into the tube in order to get them tight

Offline RandyFL

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Hello All,

John:
Ramaswami Project.. He was using multistrand and in mm s
Figuera project... I am using AWG 18 AWG magnet wire for the primary and I think 14 AWG magnet wire for the secondary...
I still have red primary flame retardant paint that I used for my original steel transformers...so what you're stating is minimal gaps using paint as a insulating material ( plus flame retardant if the iron cores heat up? ... which I don't at this point thinks get hot...but saturation...? )
In your estimation how much power is needed to jump the paint gap?
( I can push 9 amps into each pulse into the cores I believe... 9 amps 12 volts = 108 watts )

ciao

Offline JohnMiller

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Randy:
- Normal paint is not heat resistant. We know that cores can become very hot in this device and therefore I would use a paint being resistant up to 150 °C - just for safety.
- Eddy currents do not develop high voltage. Imagine the core to be one single turn. Therefore the paint does not need to be high voltage resistant.

BTW: I diligently try to find out the smallest details of the original setup and be sure I find many! It might be not the best one that can be built ever but it is one that does what we expected. Any difference we introduce ourselves might cancel the effect - possibly. This way we add additional complexity and we need to deal wit possible drawbacks. Anyway the 6mm iron rods did work in India and they will do it all over the world. So please be very sensitive at modifications of your own and double check if it is worth.
John

Offline RandyFL

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John,
I will try all of what I have learnt here in the forum and will post my results as they come...I unfortunately will have surgery next week and so...my progress will be slow...

Good luck in your endeavors...

Ciao

Offline NRamaswami

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Please find the the two primary coils and the secondary coil not wound as shown in the drawings. This type of winding the central secondary is a failure and performs poorly. The secondary must be wound to lie within the core diameter of the 4 inch pipe in the intermediate 2.5 inch pipe. This is not the way we did the tests in July 2013 and I would posts other photos later. The coils had been recently wound again for third party testing and before we give it to them we will test.

The rods as you can see are simply hammered in to the pipes. They are round rods and however you hammer them and tightly pack them there is a small gap. When the iron is heated air must flow through the iron to cool it and possibly gets ionized. However I really do not know.

I'm not a person trained in Electrical Engineering and I am unfortunately unable to explain or handle technical questions. I apologize that I cannot pretend to know a subject which I actually do not know and cannot pretend or give wrong or misleading answers.
 
I would request any one with a technical question to contact either Mr. John Miller or Mr. Patrick Kelly.

I have written elsewhere that if we keep adding plastic-iron-plastic between the layers of the multifilar coil and if the number of coils are sufficiently increased then a very low input of 110 watts is sufficient to create a lot of magnetism and current will not be passed from the primary even to the test lamps directly connected to the primary as load. My understanding is that when we add coils like multifilar coils the resistance increases for every coil by 3.2 times. The resistance of a 100 meter long 4 sq mm wire is 0.495 ohms or about 0.5 ohms. When you add another coil to it to make it a bifilar coil the resistance or impedance probably increases to 0.5x3.2 times or 0.5x3 times approximately. For every additional wire in the same coil we need to multiple by a factor of 3 to 3.2 and arrive at the approximate impedance or resistance. For a quadfilar coil this turns about to be about 13.5 ohms to 14 ohms and for two such quadfilar coils connected in series it becomes 27 ohms or 28 ohms and so for a 220 volt source the coils are able to draw a maximum of 7 to 8 amps alone and remain stable. When the coils are increased to 11 coils they are able to draw from the mains only 0.5 amps. Not more. So the increasing impedance by actual impedance x 3 or 3.2 is correct as observed in experiments.

When we add thick insulation through plastic sheets or thermocoal of about 3 to 5mm thick, and iron sheets or iron rods in between the layers  of the plastic sheets and interpose them all in between the layers of the primary the resistance appears to increase. This also results in the magnet becoming nearly roaring and the magnetic field can be felt at a good distance. I do not have any Magnetic field strength meters with me and we estimate the strength of the magnetic field from the sound the iron makes and the luminousity of the tester when the tester touches the iron rods. The iron also oscillates due to the way it is packed and as it is made up of a large number of 6 mm iron rods.

The coils are heavy. Each primary coil without iron may weight between 25 to 30 kgms. The iron we estimate is about 170 kgms. We bought about 200 kgms of soft iron rods and most of it goes inside the pipes.

The basic principle on which this device operates is apparant. The Lenz law effect is absent when the coils are placed between two opposite poles. usually the opposite poles of two magnets will jump at each other and the momentum keeps increasing until they join and disappears once they are united. If you keep the two at a distance and place the coils in between them the coil will be subject only to the flux between opposite poles and it is a powerful force. Lenz law supposes repulsive forces only or the charges to be identical charges and Lenz law is not applicable to attractive forces between opposite poles. This is what is written in BuForn patents and this is logical and correct. We have tried to place iron between the primary and secondary on the primary cores as well but it requires additional iron to be bought and it increases the weight of the iron by another 150 kgms. It is very difficult to wind manually with so much of iron. Also costs are eating funds and even with the small core we have achived the needed results.

I'm grateful to Mr. A. King for his very kind words. As you can see this device requires a lot of iron and coils. The difference in cost between a device that would produce a 1 kilowatt output and a 100 kilowatt output is marginal. There is no complicated Electronics here. In any case I cannot understand much of circuitry. I'm unable to see how I can make a small device. With two 18 inch Electromagnets we get good results when the intermediate electromagnet that does the trick is between 6 to 10 inches long. But the magnetic field strength of the two opposite poles must envelope the coils in that smaller intermediate core. Otherwise it does not function as desired. Possibly other competent technical people can bring down the size of the cores but I do not get results when I have attempted. The minimal primary core length needed is about 12 inches and to make it a powerful magnet I have tried giving power from step down transformers and it only results in the iron becoming very hot. This needs to be avoided as the system then cannot work for long time. 

When Eddy currents come we actually get good results. Presence of eddy currents indicate that the magnet is powerful. The transformer cores are laminated iron sheets and their magnetism is very low and they may not be suitable here. I may well be wrong here but strong magnetism is needed for this device to work.

I apologize if the device looks crude and unsophisticated. But it does what it is expected to do. We hope to get third party validation soon and then I will post those results when they are available. When funds are available I expect to buy a custom built step down transformer and hope to see if the device can be continuously powered from a UPS in the UPS-device-stepdown transformer-to UPS and load fashion. But this can be done only with competent technical help who can handle high voltage.

We normally put a plastic bucket to cover the iron rods that protrude outside. May be laughable but it gives good insulation..

Offline JohnMiller

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Thanks very much NRamaswami for your disclosure and information.
Question:
What do you refer to "thick" iron sheet? How many layers?
Is the plastic on both sides for insulation only?

@ALL:
I remember a Tesla patent where he defined an iron shield between primary and secondary. Has somebody the patent number at hand? I would like to study it again.
Rgds
John

Offline forest

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Sorry, but I don't believe it will work effectively.Can it be scaled down for testing ?

Offline NRamaswami

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@John Miller.

The plastic sheet is about 3 mm thick very strong plastic sheet. It is better to duct tape iron rods of 6mm type on the plastic sheet. Iron sheets are thin and they get heated. Insulation is on both the sides of the iron sheet or iron rods. The results are better when we use iron rods. I have read about the placement of insulation and iron between adjacent layers in Joesph Caters books Awesome Life Force and Ultimate Reality. But if we do not place insulation sheets on both sides of iron, the iron sheet as well as the wires get hot. Insulation appears to increase the output in secondary but this is some thing I do not understand.

@forest

Please see the two intermediate coils we use in the center. The longer coil has more wire and more turns and so we will normally conclude that the longer coil must produce more voltage and more wattage as the wire thickness is same. However in practice the smaller coil is as effective as the longer coil because the attractive field is stronger when it is closest to the two opposite poles.

I fully respect your disbelief. I understand it. This appears to be some thing that is not done in practice. This is why I'm fully disclosing it to all and check for themselves. I graduated in Chemistry in 1983. Had I told my professor that some thing like Internet would come and we will be able to speak to people through video conferencing through some thing called skype and other applications and that this can be done free of charge my professor would have probably called my parents and complained to them that either I'm taking drugs and blabbering or would have advised them to take me to a pyschiatrist. At that time it was very difficult to get a phone at home and only the privileged could get a phone at their home. I completed Law in 1987 and my dream was to have a phone in my home cum office. My younger brother who studied computers advised me to learn computers and said they will play a major role in law later. He was marketing computers at that time. I had laughed at him myself as to what use computers are to Lawyers. Today I have a web admin and we have to build customized software for my office.

I do not think (I may well be wrong) that we can downsize the device. We can have a shower and bath at home. Water pours on us and we get wet. We can go to a water falls and stand below it and same water falls on us and we also get wet. The experience is different. The effect is different. I do not know how it can be downsized to get the same effect. I may well be wrong in this but please forgive me I'm not trained in making small devices and then simulating what would happen if the device becomes big. That is not my area of competence.

However you can easily check the effect of the attractive poles alone using two small primaries and a small secondary in between the iron cores of the opposite poles of two primaries. You cann also try to extend the length of the secondary and see that the smaller secondary does better. This can be tested easily with small devices.

Some how no one appears to do R& D in generation of Electricity through Magnetism. Though all types of turbines whether they are thermal, hydro or Nuclear all end up with rotating a core to generate a rotating magnetic field to induce electricity. Transformers do create a rotating magnetic field without movement but we are taught that transformers have to be built this way to be step down transformer and build this way to be a step up transformer to produce expected results. That is the specific design of that device for that intended purpose. It does not mean that we cannot modify the device to create a large rotating magnetic field without movement. And this has been validated in 1908, displayed before the spanish office in 1910 and certificate of performance has been issued as well. This is what prompted me to check this. I have looked at the principle and not at the specific device and I found that patent hides several things as trade secrets. So I used common sense to find out.

There are only four variations that we could have done in July 2013. We are going to test all four variations in a High voltage laboratory of a third party. There is one more method of coiling and I expect that it would produce significant output but I have not dared to test it. So without observations I need not say my imaginations here.

I have given the information here so others can replicate. I'm also putting it to a third party laboratory to test and certify. Then I believe that others will take up the subject of generating electricity using a rotating magnetic field without the need for rotating a large core. I will certainly post the results from the Lab when they tests are done. This month is the vacation time in India and it may be tested only in June. If it is tested early I will post the results.

I had been very transparent and honest in this disclosure so others can take it forward. While I respect your belief, assume for a moment what I disclosed is correct data. Then it opens the possibility for a lot of employment in all countries and reduction of pollution in all countries. I'm sure once the inquriy begins and some one is able to replicate a lot of others will start researching and a lot of benefits are likely to come.

If in 1983 had you been told that mobile phones would come to all and we can access Internet, talk and look at others in other parts of the world and get news instantly of what happens any where in the world would you have believed it? Tell me please. Let us keep our minds open and investigate this.

Offline NRamaswami

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@All:

I had made initial contact with the High Voltage Laboratory in the Institute. The Professor there had little time o speak to me. According to the professor the amperage of 20 Amps shown is acceptable but the voltage is not. Because they consider Earth as Neutral the impedance between the two different earth points needs to be ascertained and then calculated to see if the 620 volts figure can be arrived at or not. They considered the secondary coil only as a shunted coil and so they would agree the Ammeter reading of 20 Amps but not the voltmeter readings. They are having exams and have vacation and may not agree to do any tests till June. And naturally before they do any test they would also check that the rods are normal rods and would check the windings.

Today the Professor suggested that If I'm in a hurry we can do the same setup with another coil wound over the central core to produce 220 volts output at higher amperages and test it ourselves. Unfortunately we had removed the insulated room arranged for the experiments and no space is available. Secondly I do not personally have any knowledge in making electrical connections. The issue of liability in case of accidents is also there. The danger of High voltage electricity is always present. So I would prefer to do it in a Government Institute even if it is going to cost more money and more time.

Because these experiments are costly I think only one friend who received information from me may do this. Even he is not willing to confirm.

Even at the supposedly low costs of India it has cost me a lot of money. On wires alone I have probably spent about $1000 and for 200 kgms of iron we spent around $300 including transportation charges. I'm not disclosing the labour costs and specialized electrician costs and the time I needed to spent.  All transformers bought by me for these experiments are gone. Labour costs and peripherals for about 9 months were the heaviest cost for me as I realized that the weakness is in the lack of knowledge of any one as to how to make magnets, how to make powerful magnets and how to make powerful electromagnets by giving little amount of  electrical input. This essentially is the secret of this device. You must make two or more very large and powerful electromagnets by giving minimal input of power and then place the output coils in between the opposite poles of the iron cores of two electromagnets. The additive flux there is not dependent on the input current but on the magnetic field strength and the intensity of the additive flux. If we use this to produce electricity, there is no connection between the input current and output current. It has cost me enormously to reach this stage but I'm unable to do further experiments. Even when I go to the University depending on their costs, I may have to apply and wait for a Government grant to do further experiments. I was crazy to have spent so much on this project.

Prof Figuera shows about 14 Large electromagnets and 7 small electromagnets. He describes the small electromagnets as reel and reels of coils. We can visualize the size of the large cores. It is possible that I have made only one of the seven sets.

Doug1 has suggested the use of Magnetic Amplifier and we had done it already without knowing what is a magnetic amplifier. But it results in a lot of heat and excessive heat conditions form after a few minutes and this needs to be avoided. There have been other suggestions to miniaturize the core but my lack of knowledge and funds limits this. Any one doing this project must and would realize that the size of the iron core matters. Greater the iron greater the output.

I apologize that I'm unable to go further than this due to my personal constraints at this time. I have done my maximum and made very transparent and honest posts and I have come very close to proving that achieving higher output than input without complicated systems is possible. Of course I followed Figuera and only avoided the rotary device due to availability of AC supply which was not present in his days. It is possible when they test the University may find that the output indeed exceeds the input. I will post at that time.