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Author Topic: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap  (Read 190875 times)

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #210 on: June 20, 2013, 02:32:19 PM »

What current consumption is involved from the supply when the reed is used?


The current consumption with the Reed switch is about double in comparison with the MOSFET (as a switch).

2 mA at 2 Volt with the Reed switch and 1 mA at 2 Volt with the MOSFET. The Reed switch circuit consumes about 500 µA at 1 Volt (MOSFET does not work at 1 V).

Greetings, Conrad

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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #211 on: June 20, 2013, 02:42:03 PM »
Well, then the Rds ON resistance seems to be twice as much than the ON resistance of the reed, this is an addition to the losses.

Gyula

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #212 on: June 20, 2013, 04:39:11 PM »
Tests with two Reed switches showed no visible improvement over one Reed switch!

It seems that charging of an external cap with a "low Voltage and low Amperage pulse motor with high impedance coils" works best with one Reed switch (instead of a transistor as a switch). The introduction of a second Reed switch did not visibly improve cap charging.

The second Reed switch increased the drag on the rotor and made operation at 1 V impossible. The motor runs nicely with one Reed switch at 1 Volt supply Voltage.

Is it possible to feed the charge from the external cap back into the circuit in order to lower its power consumption? Many tried and did not succeed, therefore I leave it at that for the moment.

I have the impression that charging the external cap increases the power draw of the motor by about 10%, which is difficult to measure consistently. Also the rotor seems to slow down a bit when charging the external cap. The charging of the 100 µF cap happens rather slowly, very much slower than the 1000 µF cap drains when running the motor.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I did some more tests. The three circuits depicted in the attached diagram seem to cause the same external cap charging and seem to have about the same power draw:

2 V supply Voltage, 0.5 mA average power draw, 4.7 µF (400 V) charged to at least 12 Volt (takes a few minutes, 1N5711 diode used)

6 V supply Voltage, 1.6 mA average power draw, 4.7 µF (400 V) charged to at least 50 Volt (takes a few minutes, UF4007 diode used)

It is hard to see whether power draw increases and rotor speed decreases a bit during external cap charging. Beyond my measuring capabilities. Let's say external cap charging does not change significantly the behaviour of the motor.

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #212 on: June 20, 2013, 04:39:11 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #213 on: June 21, 2013, 12:08:00 AM »
You have a rotor that is symmetrical, so it is fairly easy to calculate the rotational moment of inertia, based on the geometry and the masses of the individual parts. Once you know your MoI, then you can know the energy in Joules stored in the rotor's spinning simply by knowing how fast it is spinning.
So then the "cost" of charging the capacitor, which slows the rotor down, is given simply by subtraction. Since you know the amount of energy in a capacitor by knowing its charge voltage and its capacitance in Farads, the efficiency of the charge transfer of energy from rotor to capacitor, and back again, can be calculated with some precision.... as long as you can measure your rotor speed precisely and in real-time. In fact the major source of error in this process is the capacitor value, usually.

Do you have any way of measuring your rotor RPM, like an oscilloscope, or maybe an Arduino and a photodetector or Hall sensor?

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2013, 01:10:15 AM »
Tests with two Reed switches showed no visible improvement over one Reed switch!



I went through this a while back. I used 2 led's one for each reed and a battery with current limiting resistor each for the leds. This will allow you to see the timing of the reeds to get them as close as possible.

In Ossies circuit, even if the reeds are not 'perfectly' switched on and off(off being the most important) it should work well at getting current back to the drive battery. For example, if one reed switches off before the other, the coils collapsing can still flow through a diode and the reed that is not off yet to keep the inductor going till the reed finally opens. Is a unique circuit.  I would try my reed/leds timing method before giving up on the 2 reed setup. ;) Or use a 2 ch scope to see the timing. The leds work well and you will be able to really see at very slow hand operated speed of the rotor.

Mags

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #214 on: June 21, 2013, 01:10:15 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #215 on: June 21, 2013, 01:25:19 PM »
@Tinselkoala: I think I came up with a simple way to allow for quantitative power consumption comparison (see the attached drawing). No actual numbers, but one time measurement should be longer in case power is fed back.

@Magluvin: the attached scope shot shows the slight mismatch of my two reed switches (one is exactly above the other).

May be the experts can explain why I measure no "power feedback" by the diodes in a "Ossi motor type set up"?

The attached pictures contain explanatory texts.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #216 on: June 21, 2013, 02:46:24 PM »
Finally I could measure without doubt that a feed back diode (or charging an external cap via a diode) consumes more power and slows the rotor down.

I used a circuit with just one Reed switch. See the attached drawing.

The 4.7 µF cap charges up to about 50 Volt (with the Voltmeter permanently connected, which is a small load). The rotor looses about 30% of its speed and power consumption rises by about 20% when a feedback diode is used (or while the 4.7 F cap is being charged, specially during its initial charging up to 6 Volt after being shortened).

When a white LED is used as a feedback diode the LED is shining and the circuit consumes 2.3 mA and the rotor is slowing down. (In comparison to the circuit without feedback LED when the circuit consumes 2 mA.)

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #216 on: June 21, 2013, 02:46:24 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #217 on: June 21, 2013, 02:53:23 PM »
@TK

On your second to last post, yes that is also what I mentioned with cap across the coils through the right diode.
On your last post, you said the magic word "symmetrical" that I will expand on below.

Sorry - corrected, I will expand on that in a later post. hehehe

@ALL

I think @gyulasun is very right about the coils not having enough inductance even if six are in series. So you always have to keep that in mind and not be totally disheartened by the results. Inductance moves energy.

Of course, in my mind when I chose 24vdc rated coils I was thinking with the right magnet passage, each coil  will produce 24 volts (hahaha). Of course if the coils were from a 110vac relay, the winds (hence inductance) would be at least 4 times greater to offer the same wattage handling as the 24 volt coil. But I will try these anyways.

According to @lasersaber on his 6 on 6 .....
"The coils seem to vary between 1.6 to 1.7K.  The resistance on the six coiler is 9.9K."
Seen here:
http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg362805/#msg362805

Compare those to my 480 ohms and I am 4 times lower then him. No problemo we will find the right coils.

@conradelektro

I will be out for the next 3 days so back on Monday to start my wheel. Thanks for your great reports of your tests but always keep in mind that coil inductance seems to be a key issue.

I see the reeds are not opening at the same time but the scope will give you a direct visible means to adjust them closer to same timing.

Looking at your last circuit I am wondering if the power supply itself is eating up most of any excess juice from the coils. I think you can try as shown below to first isolate the power supply with a diode. That will push any return to the cap.

I am also putting up a second diagram (one reed usage) but this one you have to very careful. You need to find the an inductance coil that will match or be higher then the inductance of your 6 coils in series. Notice I switched the polarities on the power supply. Also I lowered the uF of the standard cap and put your higher uF cap separate via a diode so it is now a real load cap across the coils. Please be careful with this circuit as any mistake has a tendency to blow things. The resistor is there as a safety. You can also put in a low amp fuse just to be extra careful.

The voltage on the load cap should rise very well. Then it is a matter of feeding back the juice to the feed.

When I say feed, right now it is your power supply but that could be replaced with an even higher uF cap that could then receive the power back from the load cap via a second reed (or maybe even a zener diode - Hmmm).

I this circuit, you may need to first rotate the rotor manually very fast before you connect the feed power so that the reeds are already switching fast enough to not create a direct slow short across the feed.

Back soon.

wattsup

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #218 on: June 22, 2013, 03:44:01 AM »
@TK

On your second to last post, yes that is also what I mentioned with cap across the coils through the right diode.
On your last post, you said the magic word "symmetrical" that I will expand on below.

Sorry - corrected, I will expand on that in a later post. hehehe

@ALL

I think @gyulasun is very right about the coils not having enough inductance even if six are in series. So you always have to keep that in mind and not be totally disheartened by the results. Inductance moves energy.

Of course, in my mind when I chose 24vdc rated coils I was thinking with the right magnet passage, each coil  will produce 24 volts (hahaha). Of course if the coils were from a 110vac relay, the winds (hence inductance) would be at least 4 times greater to offer the same wattage handling as the 24 volt coil. But I will try these anyways.

According to @lasersaber on his 6 on 6 .....
"The coils seem to vary between 1.6 to 1.7K.  The resistance on the six coiler is 9.9K."
Seen here:
http://www.overunity.com/13523/has-anyone-seen-lasersabers-new-motor-runs-on-1000uf-cap/msg362805/#msg362805

Compare those to my 480 ohms and I am 4 times lower then him. No problemo we will find the right coils.

@conradelektro

I will be out for the next 3 days so back on Monday to start my wheel. Thanks for your great reports of your tests but always keep in mind that coil inductance seems to be a key issue.

I see the reeds are not opening at the same time but the scope will give you a direct visible means to adjust them closer to same timing.

Looking at your last circuit I am wondering if the power supply itself is eating up most of any excess juice from the coils. I think you can try as shown below to first isolate the power supply with a diode. That will push any return to the cap.

I am also putting up a second diagram (one reed usage) but this one you have to very careful. You need to find the an inductance coil that will match or be higher then the inductance of your 6 coils in series. Notice I switched the polarities on the power supply. Also I lowered the uF of the standard cap and put your higher uF cap separate via a diode so it is now a real load cap across the coils. Please be careful with this circuit as any mistake has a tendency to blow things. The resistor is there as a safety. You can also put in a low amp fuse just to be extra careful.

The voltage on the load cap should rise very well. Then it is a matter of feeding back the juice to the feed.

When I say feed, right now it is your power supply but that could be replaced with an even higher uF cap that could then receive the power back from the load cap via a second reed (or maybe even a zener diode - Hmmm).

I this circuit, you may need to first rotate the rotor manually very fast before you connect the feed power so that the reeds are already switching fast enough to not create a direct slow short across the feed.

Back soon.

wattsup

That second diagram using the Igniter/Ozone circuit wasnt quite right. Made the corrections below.  ;D

Mags

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #218 on: June 22, 2013, 03:44:01 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #219 on: June 24, 2013, 06:07:58 PM »
@Mags

Just got back late last night.

Sorry but my diagram is correct for the specific ozone patent 568177. It uses both the discharge on connection of a capacitor and the discharge of an inductor on disconnection to give two pulses while making sure the pulses are damped since for Tesla undamped pulses are always lost to the environment.

But again this method is very difficult to maintain because if the inductor is not of high enough inductance to create its own natural resistance, you will be producing heat. That's why I added that resistor in the circuit.

wattsup

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #220 on: June 24, 2013, 09:11:59 PM »
Finally, DadHav's circuit for my little 6 coil pulse motor:

The circuit makes the rotor turn with about 120 rpm and consumes less than 200 µA driven with a 1.5 V AAA battery.

Note, no Reed switch, the coils are also the trigger via the second transistor.

The 2.2 nF cap (from the base of the 2N3906 to GND) is essential for clean switching.

The circuit stems from DadHav www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b4xlCKn3LQ and the transistors were chosen by Lidmotor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epWPTeV_544 .

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I posted a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqQSJjRJ6EQ

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #220 on: June 24, 2013, 09:11:59 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #221 on: June 25, 2013, 12:39:51 AM »
@Mags

Just got back late last night.

Sorry but my diagram is correct for the specific ozone patent 568177. It uses both the discharge on connection of a capacitor and the discharge of an inductor on disconnection to give two pulses while making sure the pulses are damped since for Tesla undamped pulses are always lost to the environment.

But again this method is very difficult to maintain because if the inductor is not of high enough inductance to create its own natural resistance, you will be producing heat. That's why I added that resistor in the circuit.

wattsup

Hmm thats odd. When I was working on the Igniter circuit, I could have sworn it was the same just different switching. Your right.  I dont think it would work though if the output/drive coil of the motor is used in series with the cap, being that the drive coil(of these motors) has high inductance already.

When the switch closes, the input charges up the large inductor through the output coil, of which it looks like a low inductance and not many turns in the pat.  Imagine charging up the large inductor then letting the collapse currents charge the cap through the output coil of these motors. I dont think it will happen like the igniter circuit could where it charges the cap in the input/large inductor loop without the output coil in the way. If the output coil is high inductance and ohms, it will more than likely act as a choke to the collapse current of the large inductor and end more with a spark across the switch instead I believe.



Have you tried the ozone circuit on a motor as you show?  I would be interested if it works. ;D


Got my 42awg wire in today. I had been playing with some relay coil wire till it came and this 42 is smaller. Near hair like. Its 1lb, supposedly about 50,000 ft. The roll measures about 85kohm.  Almost 10 miles long. Gunna take some pics for comparisons to 30awg, 26awg and the relay wire I was playing with.

Before I use any of it im going to try and see what kind of field and generator properties it has a a whole roll. Just for kicks.  ;)

I also have a compass module from a VW Touareg that has 2 coils perpendicular from each other and they are wound with even finer wire than I just received. :o If they produce voltage just from the earths magnetic field motion to provide input to the compass circuit, it will be interesting to see how much. The compass reads whether the vehicle is in motion or not, so it must be the coils are picking up on moving earth fields.
Will see.


Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #222 on: June 25, 2013, 12:46:43 AM »
Finally, DadHav's circuit for my little 6 coil pulse motor:

The circuit makes the rotor turn with about 120 rpm and consumes less than 200 µA driven with a 1.5 V AAA battery.

Note, no Reed switch, the coils are also the trigger via the second transistor.

The 2.2 nF cap (from the base of the 2N3906 to GND) is essential for clean switching.

The circuit stems from DadHav www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b4xlCKn3LQ and the transistors were chosen by Lidmotor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epWPTeV_544 .

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I posted a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqQSJjRJ6EQ

Hey Conrad

Does the motor work better with the 2.2 cap?  Was wondering if the noise is something that can be collected instead of snubbed with the cap.

Nice job. Ive been meaning to try Dads circuit.  I like it. ;)

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2013, 03:55:59 AM »
Here are some pix of wire. First is a pic of, starting from the top  27awg  30 awg  then unknown from a relay coil, then the 42 awg, and finally, the bottom, one strand of my hair. ;D Had to do it. Sacrificial hair. ;D The hair is just about 42 awg, just a 'hair' thinner.  ;D

The next is a pic through a magnifying glass to get as clear of a pic as possible with this camera. It is of the 2 perpendicular coils of the electronic compass along with a strand of 42 awg.  The pic doesnt show so well, but those wires in the 2 coils are finer than 42 awg. With a 100x microscope the coils wire is almost half the diameter of the 42.

Then just 2 pics of the wire roll

Mags

Offline Poit

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Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #224 on: June 25, 2013, 05:03:11 AM »
"The circuit makes the rotor turn with about 120 rpm and consumes less than 200 µA driven with a 1.5 V AAA battery."

Please forgive my ignorance, naivety and assumptions.

If this demonstration draws less than 200µA, which is 200micro amps... or 2mA and spins magnets at 120rpm... my first thought would be, what happens when you introduce a generator coil either above or below the rotating magnets? Lenz Law kicks in right? but I would be interested to see by how much!

Say, you have a generator coil, how much more draw would there be on the AA battery? double? 4mA? 10 times?! 20mA? even if it was 10 times the draw, surely a generator coil could produce more than 1.5V @ 20mA? hence over unity?

**EDIT** I made a mistake! 200 microamps = .2milliamps!! not 2mA! wow! ok... thats even better!!!

 

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