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Author Topic: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread  (Read 268026 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #165 on: December 23, 2013, 04:51:22 PM »
A way to try and explain this reactive power situation using water and a paddle wheel
In the video,we see water flowing out of a chanel(the waterfall),and onto a paddle wheel.
No matter how much we load the paddle wheel,no reflection or restriction of the water flow will be detected at the output of the water channel(top of the waterfall).But what would happen if we reduce or stop the water flow at the top of the waterfall?. We also know that the paddle wheel would not have enough energy to return all the water driving it,back up to the top of the waterfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKx-Jms624A

A simple test for you all(one i carried out) in reguards to the main's/MOT setup.First,get it to read 0 watt's,and measure voltage across load resistor on the secondary. Next test-place a 1k ohm non inductive resistor on the active of the mains line,befor the watt meter.Now run again,and measure voltage across load resistor on MOT secondary. If we were indeed drawing 0 watts of power,then no drop in voltage across the load resistor should be detected. I could tell you my results,but this is something you must see for your self.
okay but now turn the paddle wheel on its side, and make a vortex, which has a combined resonant motion greater than the input...

backyard science version

industrial scale version

Edit: generator in india Had to add this one too...

Would be best if the impeller could just react to the surface flow ,which is the fastest portion...

viktor schauburger aparatus for generating power at his cabin... top is a splined pipe falling on an impeller

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Offline wings

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #166 on: December 23, 2013, 04:58:09 PM »
the max allowable reactive power should be within 90% of active power

INPUT
1260 Watts and 3000 VAR -
3300 total input power V*A (200 Volts 5-6 amperes)



cost (3.23*1260 + 4.21*3000)/3600= 4.6 centEuro (KV*A*hours)


OUTPUT
9080 Watts and 165 VAR
9100 total output power V*A (220Volts 13.5 amperes)

cost (3.23*9080 + 4.21*165)/3600= 8.4 centEuro (KV*A*hours)


amplifications of 10 times active power 3 times full power - not bad
I was not able to download
http://x-faq.ru/index.php?PHPSESSID=2ff6a3659cbfc6464117764804a0dbaa&action=dlattach;topic=1316.0;attach=6677;image


http://x-faq.ru/index.php?topic=1316.240


О нас | Лаборатория инновационной электродинамики "СТЕХО"   steholab.ru
Владелец домена: ZAO ASGARD
Тел.: +7 34365 60600
Email: adm@t4f.ru
[/size]
here more:
http://nshb.at.ua/load/svobodnaja_ehnergija/rezonansnyj_usilitel_moshhnosti_stepanova/21-1-0-589
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/104616649/Stepanov-electric-power-amplifier




Offline d3x0r

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #167 on: December 23, 2013, 05:30:00 PM »
Or maybe the load is reacting like a brown dipper (image)

American dipper under water
more of the same

Dipper at Tyresta Nyfors




Was reflecting; if you have a twisted pipe and can guarantee its negative resistance flow rate, could put the water back uphill easier... even if it wasn't negative and it was just lower resistance would be good....
and that's all doable using hydrodynamics alone
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 09:41:38 PM by d3x0r »

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #167 on: December 23, 2013, 05:30:00 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #168 on: December 23, 2013, 10:04:56 PM »
Maybe the Russian Guys device takes the 50 Hz grid supply and chops it up to high frequency which causes the output meter to read incorrectly. We have to assume the light bulbs are 500 Watts each, I would have thought 10 kW of 500 Watt light bubs would be difficult to look at and film properly if fully powered. Then there is the reactance from the globes, if the output of the device is high frequency and the bulbs have inductance there are more issues for the meter which is designed for 50/60 Hz Sine wave power. If the output is not 50/60 Hz Sine wave power the meter will not be reading correctly.

Then there is the problem of it being connected to the grid, none of these systems that require connection to the grid will have any future if the power company finds out about it, just like the guys in Brazil, the power company will not allow other people to make use of their grid to do work for free. For there to be any uses for this stuff the device needs to be able to make use of a motor driven AC generator/alternator as the power supply or some other way of obtaining the AC supply on site, connecting to the grid takes out the cost of producing the AC power to begin with, it's simply cheating.

If it won't work when used with say a 5 kVA petrol/gas powered generator then it probably isn't "making" any energy.

It requires energy to keep the grid supply there and waiting.

It takes energy to power a load.

Someone beg borrow or otherwise obtain a small AC petrol generator and use that for the power supply, then factor in the cost of fuel and maintenance for that power supply for the duration of the tests to get the real efficiency. Notice the way generators are in rated kVA not Watts output.

..




Offline wings

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #169 on: December 23, 2013, 10:19:07 PM »
Maybe the Russian Guys device takes the 50 Hz grid supply and chops it up to high frequency which causes the output meter to read incorrectly. We have to assume the light bulbs are 500 Watts each, I would have thought 10 kW of 500 Watt light bubs would be difficult to look at and film properly if fully powered. Then there is the reactance from the globes, if the output of the device is high frequency and the bulbs have inductance there are more issues for the meter which is designed for 50/60 Hz Sine wave power. If the output is not 50/60 Hz Sine wave power the meter will not be reading correctly.

Then there is the problem of it being connected to the grid, none of these systems that require connection to the grid will have any future if the power company finds out about it, just like the guys in Brazil, the power company will not allow other people to make use of their grid to do work for free. For there to be any uses for this stuff the device needs to be able to make use of a motor driven AC generator/alternator as the power supply or some other way of obtaining the AC supply on site, connecting to the grid takes out the cost of producing the AC power to begin with, it's simply cheating.

If it won't work when used with say a 5 kVA petrol/gas powered generator then it probably isn't "making" any energy.

It requires energy to keep the grid supply there and waiting.

It takes energy to power a load.

Someone beg borrow or otherwise obtain a small AC petrol generator and use that for the power supply, then factor in the cost of fuel and maintenance for that power supply for the duration of the tests to get the real efficiency. Notice the way generators are in rated kVA not Watts output.

..




i like this diagram
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/nshb/view/420216/
the use of variable reactor (or magnetic amplifier) that sense the load
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/nshb/view/420217/
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/nshb/view/420214/

all it seem well done
http://nshb.at.ua/load/svobodnaja_ehnergija/rezonansnyj_usilitel_moshhnosti_stepanova/21-1-0-589
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 12:47:20 AM by wings »

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #169 on: December 23, 2013, 10:19:07 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #170 on: December 24, 2013, 01:49:54 AM »
@Farmhand
Quote
Then there is the problem of it being connected to the grid, none of these systems that require connection to the grid will have any future if the power company finds out about it, just like the guys in Brazil, the power company will not allow other people to make use of their grid to do work for free. For there to be any uses for this stuff the device needs to be able to make use of a motor driven AC [color=rgb(27, 142, 222) !important]generator[/color]/alternator as the [color=rgb(27, 142, 222) !important]power supply[/color] or some other way of obtaining the AC supply on site, connecting to the grid takes out the cost of producing the AC power to begin with, it's simply cheating.


Oh I wouldn't worry too much about the power companies anymore than one would worry about the horses when the automobile came or whale oil companies when the light bulb was invented. They will be obsolete soon enough and our children will look back on us in the same way we would back on the pioneers. They will laugh at this nonsense and wonder how such people even managed to walk upright. This is true as it has always been true throughout our history and your power companies days are numbered. Nobody... I repeat Nobody has the power to halt progress and evolution, it marches on as consistently as time itself.


On a side note if all goes well by this time next year I will have the pleasure of demanding the power company remove all there equipment from my private property. You see the power companies are nothing more than a simple service provider and I have the right to choose who provides it or to generate my own power. We are in control of our future not them ... deal with it.


AC

Offline infringer

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #171 on: December 24, 2013, 02:26:05 AM »
You bet and the customer is always right !

Unless there is a governing law that a greased political figure passes to make us wrong lol.

Than in this case a little civil disobeying may be of the order. :P

Laws only stick if the majority follow them and the tipping point for any issue is believe it or not only 10% of a difference another interesting fact.

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #171 on: December 24, 2013, 02:26:05 AM »
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Offline Thaelin

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #172 on: December 24, 2013, 07:16:56 PM »
Make sure that you read the article about the lady that is being evicted
from her "paid for property" because she doesn't use the grid. Paid for
property? Yea right! Just dont pay your property taxes and see who really
owns it.


Offline vince

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #173 on: December 24, 2013, 09:20:34 PM »
Tried one of the Russian circuits that Wings posted.
Interesting results!

I did not have 1:1 transformers, so I made do.

AC 110 volt to
Killowwatt meter to
110 volt to 220 volt step up transformer to
240 volt to 120 volt transformer to
15 uf capacitor  on one leg
Outdoor HO florescent tube inductor on other leg
Both legs to 230 volt to 208 volt transformer to
Load

Voltage out was slightly higher than 110 volts.
After tuning for the right capacitor value the load (in this case a scroll saw) did not draw more amps on loading.
Tried the saw with no circuit and loaded it to stall both with cutting and by manually locking the reciprocating arm. The amps shot way up as did wattage used .
Same thing with wrong capacitor values.
Tune to proper capacitance and loaded the saw within the russian circuit and absolutely no increase in amps or watts used even on stall. Was able to cut same material.
Need someone with proper measuring equipment to try this!

Vince


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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #173 on: December 24, 2013, 09:20:34 PM »
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Offline wings

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #174 on: December 24, 2013, 09:48:26 PM »
Vince
the Russian circuits use a variable inductor to tune the circuit to resonance (much easier that change capacitor size) in your circuit you have the small white transformer put on the free side a DC current regulated by potentiometer or put a magnet at different distance like in this experiment :http://sparkbangbuzz.com/mag-amp/mag-amp.htm very similar to the Russian http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5410/47810397.14/0_66976_6bec2ddb_L.jpg


The Russian have a circuit to tune the variable magnetic inductor (m.amplifier) according to the load current and to output load voltage.
 :)

Offline vince

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #175 on: December 24, 2013, 10:12:27 PM »
Hi Wings

So let me get this correct. Are you saying that if I replace my inductor with a transformer and use a small dc voltage with a potentiometer on the the open windings of the transformer I will be able to tune the capacitance to optimize the circuit?
I was just trying the simple circuit they had posted because I thought it would be doable with what I had on hand. Tuning was tedious but I think the circuit shows promise in a looped system.

Vince

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #175 on: December 24, 2013, 10:12:27 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #177 on: December 24, 2013, 10:34:46 PM »
Hi Vince and Wings,

In the block diagram the upper left transformer is a step down type (понижающий трансформатор), I managed to figure it out from the text written above that transformer... :)  Hence it is supposed to feed (with a low impedance output, i.e. small voltage-high current) the tank circuit made from capacitor C and the primary coil of the right hand side power transformer.

Then here is a google translation on the block diagram Vince tried to test in his post #173:

**** start  (from link http://nshb.at.ua/load/svobodnaja_ehnergija/rezonansnyj_usilitel_moshhnosti_stepanova/21-1-0-589 )

The simplest resonance amplifier consists of only four elements.

Appointment of elements is the same as in the previously discussed amplifier. The only difference is that in the simplest resonant amplifier manual adjustment is made in response to a specific load .

Calculate the simplest amplifier can be simplified to the following algorithm:

1. Enable the power transformer to the network and measure at a given load current consumed them .

2 . Measure the resistance of the primary winding of the power transformer .

3 . Calculate the impedance of the transformer under load.

4 . Calculate the inductive reactance of the transformer under load.

5 . Select the value of the inductive reactance of the controlled magnetic
the reactor equal to about 20 % of the inductive reactance of the power transformer .

6. Manufacture adjustable magnetic reactor tapped starting from the middle to the end of the winding ( the more bends to be made , the better the adjustment in resonance).

7. On the condition that the inductive and capacitive reactance at resonance, calculate the value of the container , which must be connected in series with the transformer and adjustable magnetic reactor for a series resonant circuit.

8. Of the resonance conditions , multiply the measured current consumption loaded transformer to the amount of active resistance of the primary winding and the reactor and get an approximate value of voltage is needed to apply for a serial loop .

9. Mark transformer for output found according to claim 8 voltage and the measured current consumption of claim 1 ( the period setting of the amplifier is the most convenient to use LATR ) .

10 . Powered from the mains through a transformer of claim 9 input resonant circuit - ( series-connected capacitor loaded primary winding power transformers and reactors ) .

11. Changing the inductance of the reactor by switching taps configure the primary circuit in resonance when the input voltage ( for fine-tuning can be slightly change the capacitance of the capacitor connected in parallel with the main capacitors of small capacity ) .

12. By changing the input voltage to set the voltage on the primary winding of the power transformer 220 V.

13. Turn off and turn LATR stationary step-down transformer with the same strain .

Widespread use of tuned amplifiers power frequency can significantly reduce the load on the distribution networks and reduce capital costs for the introduction of new electrical capacity.

Scope of resonant power amplifiers power frequency - stationary and marine electrical systems . Mobile objects appropriate to apply transgeneratory at higher frequencies , followed by converting AC to DC .
**** end

I think iT would be better to use a power transformer with a 230V or even a 380V primary coil, preferably with very low DC resistance winding so that the tank circuit should have as high Quality factor at 50 or 60 Hz resonating with capacitor C as possible.

Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #178 on: December 24, 2013, 10:56:38 PM »
...
So let me get this correct. Are you saying that if I replace my inductor with a transformer and use a small dc voltage with a potentiometer on the the open windings of the transformer I will be able to tune the capacitance to optimize the circuit?
...

Yes, basically you get a tunable coil with the DC current biasing the core of that coil, this is what is shown in the block digram with the feedback circuit:  some part of the output voltage is rectified and fed back to two variable inductors, the control coils of which are cross fed by this control current to cancel 'unwanted modulation' for the tank circuit. With this feedback circuit the effect of the changing load conditions is compensated for within a certain load range, this is why a constant load is mentioned for the simplified block diagram where there is no feedback.  At least this is what is suggested in the Russian text.

Gyula

Offline wings

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Re: Reactive power - Reactive Generator research from GotoLuc - discussion thread
« Reply #179 on: December 24, 2013, 10:58:55 PM »
Hi Wings

So let me get this correct. Are you saying that if I replace my inductor with a transformer and use a small dc voltage with a potentiometer on the the open windings of the transformer I will be able to tune the capacitance to optimize the circuit?
I was just trying the simple circuit they had posted because I thought it would be doable with what I had on hand. Tuning was tedious but I think the circuit shows promise in a looped system.

Vince

you tune the circuit by Variable inductance instead by Step by step capacitance.

 

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