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Author Topic: Small amount of HHO Gas into automotive Catalytic converter yields OU heat??  (Read 45123 times)

Offline conradelektro

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I did a little search (just on the Internet).

jdc.products is right about HHO-catalyst heaters. All is about natural gas catalyst heaters.

Since oil and natural gas were and still are so easily available and comparatively cheap the world turned and still turns around oil and natural gas. This will change. The oil and gas crisis will not be an overnight event but a gradual increase of price and a gradual decrease of availability for the average citizen (over decades).

The big days of HHO were in the late 19th century and the early 20th century, so one would have to go through the literature of that time. But this literature is seldom digitized, often not even the bibliographical data, so one has to deal with real books and real paper in many locations (University libraries and even museums), which is a chore. I am sure that there is a lot of information buried.

Splitting water with electricity from solar panels and then burning the HHO in a catalyst oven for sure is a neat concept. But one should not underestimate storage and safety problems with HHO. Also the catalyst (platinum sponge or gauze) will be soiled after a while by residues of the chemical reaction.

The best approach might be to store the electricity from solar panels in conventional batteries and then to create HHO on demand with the electricity from the batteries to avoid storage of HHO. Trivial efficiency calculations do not apply because the sun is shining for free. Of course one could add wind turbines for electricity generation.

The problem is to engineer the whole package (solar panels, batteries, water splitter, catalyst heater) in a way to make it practical and not too expensive.


The question: Let's say electric energy was collected in a battery (by help of solar panels and wind generators). What is more efficient? To use the energy from the battery in a resistor heating (the conventional electric panel heaters) or to split water with the electricity from the battery and to burn the HHO in a catalyst heater? My first thought, the direct way (resistor heating) should be more efficient?

So, all comes down to the question: How or from where do you get the HHO?

And: Do you store HHO?

Just contemplating and dreaming, Conrad

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Offline jdc.products@gmail.com

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I did a little search (just on the Internet).

jdc.products is right about HHO-catalyst heaters. All is about natural gas catalyst heaters.

Since oil and natural gas were and still are so easily available and comparatively cheap the world turned and still turns around oil and natural gas. This will change. The oil and gas crisis will not be an overnight event but a gradual increase of price and a gradual decrease of availability for the average citizen (over decades).

The big days of HHO were in the late 19th century and the early 20th century, so one would have to go through the literature of that time. But this literature is seldom digitized, often not even the bibliographical data, so one has to deal with real books and real paper in many locations (University libraries and even museums), which is a chore. I am sure that there is a lot of information buried.

Splitting water with electricity from solar panels and then burning the HHO in a catalyst oven for sure is a neat concept. But one should not underestimate storage and safety problems with HHO. Also the catalyst (platinum sponge or gauze) will be soiled after a while by residues of the chemical reaction.

The best approach might be to store the electricity from solar panels in conventional batteries and then to create HHO on demand with the electricity from the batteries to avoid storage of HHO. Trivial efficiency calculations do not apply because the sun is shining for free. Of course one could add wind turbines for electricity generation.

The problem is to engineer the whole package (solar panels, batteries, water splitter, catalyst heater) in a way to make it practical and not too expensive.


The question: Let's say electric energy was collected in a battery (by help of solar panels and wind generators). What is more efficient? To use the energy from the battery in a resistor heating (the conventional electric panel heaters) or to split water with the electricity from the battery and to burn the HHO in a catalyst heater? My first thought, the direct way (resistor heating) should be more efficient?

So, all comes down to the question: How or from where do you get the HHO?

And: Do you store HHO?

Just contemplating and dreaming, Conrad

Awesome thoughts and information. Yes hho was in its prime over a hundred years ago and it has been very difficult to find relevant information anywhere on pure hho. You will have no problem on finding information and numbers as it pertains to Hydrogen or H2 but most of the online information as it pertains to hho is surrounded by fringe and crackpot science. Really sad but true. Where I am located, local libraries have become a thing of the past and have nearly turned into a full fledged computer lab. The available hard copy books and information are very narrow in scope. Nothing to be found on HHO. University libraries and museums would be of no use as the distance to travel would not be practical and most likely you will end up empty handed.

It would be nice to see the modern day scientific community and universities around the globe doing studies on the analysis of hho and publishing their findings but sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it too. Most of us have to learn as we go.

HHO gas can be stored safely but its NOT recommended for beginners or the faint of heart. The gas packs a nasty punch when ignited in confined spaces or pressurized containers. Some Military defense contractors decades ago were using hho as a propellant for a Space Cannon in which they were testing the feasibility of launching small satellites into orbit from ground level.  To be absolutely safe, no one should pressurize hho. All of us use the gas on demand because of the dangers involved with pressurization of the gas. Low on demand flow rates of the gas is very safe when using the proper safety equipment such as a safety bubbler and flashback arrestor.

The first prototype catalytic combustion of hho space heater will be ran using grid power but can easily be ran from battery banks in case of a power outage without much effort. Estimated wattage will be somewhere between 2-400 watts. The hope will be higher heat output compared to the same wattage resistive type heater. What little bit of information you can find on catalytic hho heating it is suggesting up to 4x in terms of input wattage vs output heat. This has yet to be verified but crude testing has me excited the idea may prove out to be true. If testing validates any type of efficiency over comparable electric resistive space heaters then it is economical and practical to run the hho heating system from grid power. This early in the testing one can only hope and make excited assumptions.

Solar and Wind are viable mechanisms for producing power to run the electrolysis systems when needed.  Excess power can be sent to be stored in battery banks for future use if needed but the hope is to get rid of the heavy batteries and replace with fuel cells and storage tanks for the Hydrogen and Oxygen. That is probably a few years out for me at the pace of things recently but for now the H-Cat heater will be initially ran using grid power.

Hopefully in the next few weeks, I will have the system fully built to really put it to the test.

Offline LibreEnergia

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What utter garbage this whole HHO thing is. It's simply a 2 to 1 stoichiometric mix of H2 and 02 gasses.
Incredibly dangerous to store.

Why not simply keep the hydrogen and store that, which is a far safer thing to do.

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Offline jdc.products@gmail.com

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What utter garbage this whole HHO thing is. It's simply a 2 to 1 stoichiometric mix of H2 and 02 gasses.
Incredibly dangerous to store.

Why not simply keep the hydrogen and store that, which is a far safer thing to do.

Garbage? I'm not in the mood to write you off but let me clarify a few things. HHO can be safely stored but its NOT recommended. Yes it is far safer to store H2 and is something I'm working on. I can use the Catalytic Converter to purify the gas out of my split cell.

That is really not what this thread is about. I was answering some questions from the previous poster before you decided to enlighten us with your ignorance and repeat the same thing I just said.

This thread is about on demand hho used in a catalytic combustion process to yield heat for space heating. Got anything else you would like to add from the peanut gallery?

Online ramset

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Conrad
I was surprised at how efficient resistive heating actually is,it will come down to Dollars.
we know we can take 10 dollars worth of electricity and get almost 10 dollars worth of heat from it with a resistor.
 
if we take 10 dollars worth of electricity and make HHO with it ,and then we get 7 dollars worth of heat minus all the extra infrastucture of the HHO system and its costs/concerns.
 
 
It will all comes down to dollars in this instance ,
 
I am not sure why Justin has not thrown a box over that Cat yet /being a man I can only imagine he has the same curiosity as Myself ,anytime I build anything or change anything the very first thing I do is test it before I make any claims or changes ,this is how we engineer .
 
Especially before I ask others to participate and help?
 
and this being the most simple test a person could imagine a box and a thermometer???
 
however seeing that small reaction zone in the Video making only 1000F with all that energy I suspect he has done some testing and is trying to figure out how to get more heat from it before he does a formal public test.
 
I think he will have fun playing with it there are other reactions taking place in this cat
during the recombination proccess [vacuum] .
 
It is a cool thing to see and we all need the heat.
I got my fingers crossed..............
 
Like yourself Conrad I have other irons in the fire ,there just doesn't seem to be enough time to play with everything................
 
Thx
Chet
ps
I see Justin made two posts since I sarted typing a responce to Conrad......
good morning again Justin,
Have a good day
 
 
 
 
 
 

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Offline jdc.products@gmail.com

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Conrad
I was surprised at how efficient resistive heating actually is,it will come down to Dollars.
we know we can take 10 dollars worth of electricity and get almost 10 dollars worth of heat from it with a resistor.
 
if we take 10 dollars worth of electricity and make HHO with it ,and then we get 7 dollars worth of heat minus all the extra infrastucture of the HHO system and its costs/concerns.
 
 
It will all comes down to dollars in this instance ,
 
I am not sure why Justin has not thrown a box over that Cat yet /being a man I can only imagine he has the same curiosity as Myself ,anytime I build anything or change anything the very first thing I do is test it before I make any claims.
 
Especially before I ask others to participate and help?
 
and this being the most simple test a person could imagine a box and a thermometer???
 
however seeing that small reaction zone in the Video making only 1000F with all that energy I suspect he has done some testing and is trying to figure out how to get more heat from it before he does a formal public test.
 
I think he will have fun playing with it there are other reactions taking place in this cat
during the recombination proccess [vacuum] .
 
It is a cool thing to see and we all need the heat.
I got my fingers crossed..............
 
Like yourself Conrad I have other irons in the fire ,there just doesn't seem to be enough time to play with everything................
 
Thx
Chet

My God man you throwing out cheap shots now that I got upity with you? You really want to see this test ran huh? lol I'm not trying to figure out a way to produce more heat. I'm trying to make it safe and close the reaction chamber up before I run the tests. I have to add the insulation pad to diffuse the gas and y the hho output so I can activate the other side of the cat. Would you like me to half ass it?

The reaction zone was "small" as you say because the gas wasn't diffused out over the entire substrate and the temps were well above 1000F. I don't know what the peak temps were because none of my thermometers would read it.

10 dollars for the gas and 7 dollars worth of heat? Now your making assumptions. My threads and my introduction YouTube video is titled with ? indicating I do not know for sure. Yes I've become excited. I think if you were actually here and you could put your hands on this cat (lol) you would be excited too.

If you want to really know why I haven't put this thing under a carboard box yet I welcome you to come to my Home, meet my wife, stay for dinner (make sure you dress warm lol) and you will know exactly why I am more concerned about building the heater than worrying about efficiency tests. Anything is better than what I have now.

Again, the catalytic combustion process isn't just about heat output, did you watch my YouTube video? I walk people through the entire process of how to go about building a solar hydrogen storage unit. The problem that a lot of us were having is not having the balls to store the gas out of our split cells because we suspected it wasn't pure enough and we were all too poor to afford gas sniffers or having the gas analyzed by a lab. None of us really knew how to purify the gas. We needed to make absolutely sure we were storing very pure Hydrogen. I stumbled upon this heat effect testing the off the shelf catalytic converter as a re-combiner for my home brewed split cell and at first that was my only intention was to use it to purify the Hydrogen which has turned out to produce the highest purity levels of most other purification process's 99.99 to be exact. So I gave the information away on what to use to purify the gas, which was something a lot of us in the community struggled with for a long time.  I also become heavily involved in the study of fuel cell technologies and realized we could be using the precious metals out of these to build large scale fuel cells as well. I gave that information in the video too.

The heat effect was just another jewel of all of this and the fact remains, information on the process using hho is next to non existent. What little bit I could find was claiming it produced an overunity effect in terms of heat output. Couldn't find any videos to prove or disprove that. At the same time I made a connection to the LENR research because their reactors contain porous Nickel, Platinum, or Palladium cores in which Hydrogen or isotopes of Hydrogen is sent in usually under a vacuum and interacts with the catalyst metal to create excess heat. Now I know there is more to it than that but basically its the same process.

I decided to share the information with everyone without holding on to the information in hopes of future profits. I thought it was the right thing to do. I'm asking others to participate because its simple and easy. Again, not just about the heat. You would be surprised how many people have been dying to know how to purify the gas, now they know...

You made a comment over at energetics that you were willing to drive to NC to help run the test. Well buddy, the invitation is out in the open. I'd be more than happy to entertain you. I know the tests are simple but you seem to be really interested in trying to get me to do them. Come on by brother and help me rig it all up. We can even do a video together. My home is open to you...

Online ramset

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Justin
I would love to ,I'll ring you in a bit.
thx
Chet

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Offline jdc.products@gmail.com

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Justin
I would love to ,I'll ring you in a bit.
thx
Chet

Cool, I'll be here chillin...literally, stupid snow

Offline tim123

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I got my HHO setup working, and wanted to know what to aim for...

This page explains the math on HHO generator efficiency really well:
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?1940-100-Faraday-Efficiency-9.282-MMW!

"107.73 Watts will generate 1 LPM at 100 percent efficiency"

So - if 1LPM of gas in a cat makes more heat than 107.73 watts of resistive heating - then that would be 'OU'...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline jdc.products@gmail.com

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I got my HHO setup working, and wanted to know what to aim for...

This page explains the math on HHO generator efficiency really well:
http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?1940-100-Faraday-Efficiency-9.282-MMW!

"107.73 Watts will generate 1 LPM at 100 percent efficiency"

So - if 1LPM of gas in a cat makes more heat than 107.73 watts of resistive heating - then that would be 'OU'...

You will never see 100 percent efficiency with your hho cell. You will be looking at more like 150-200 watts for 1 LPM. The best way to go about testing is to use raw power instead of gas output. 200 watts into the hho cell and then the gas into the cat vs. 200 watt resistive heater or 2 100 watt light bulbs. 

Offline tim123

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You will never see 100 percent efficiency with your hho cell. You will be looking at more like 150-200 watts for 1 LPM.

Hi JDC,
  yes indeed. My setup uses about 100w for 0.5 Lpm at low voltage. It's probably better at full voltage because it approaches 1.2v per gap, but I've not tested it fully yet.

Quote
The best way to go about testing is to use raw power instead of gas output. 200 watts into the hho cell and then the gas into the cat vs. 200 watt resistive heater or 2 100 watt light bulbs.

Not sure I agree... It depends what your testing. Is it:
 a) Whether the cat itself, on it's own, is OU, or
 b) Whether the HHO gen & cat in combination is OU.

I think the test we need to do is (a). That's the test that will show OU in the cat, or not.  We already know the HHO gen is not OU...

So, I would say: Ignore the input power to your cell, and use only the flow-rate for the input power. Although, having said that - if you test (b) and it is OU - then you know it's *well* OU...

BTW - I've just ordered a brand new cat off ebay for a mere £27. I'm aiming to try it too - and publish my results here. :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline jdc.products@gmail.com

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Hi JDC,
  yes indeed. My setup uses about 100w for 0.5 Lpm at low voltage. It's probably better at full voltage because it approaches 1.2v per gap, but I've not tested it fully yet.

Not sure I agree... It depends what your testing. Is it:
 a) Whether the cat itself, on it's own, is OU, or
 b) Whether the HHO gen & cat in combination is OU.

I think the test we need to do is (a). That's the test that will show OU in the cat, or not.  We already know the HHO gen is not OU...

So, I would say: Ignore the input power to your cell, and use only the flow-rate for the input power. Although, having said that - if you test (b) and it is OU - then you know it's *well* OU...

BTW - I've just ordered a brand new cat off ebay for a mere £27. I'm aiming to try it too - and publish my results here. :)

Be careful when ordering Cats, sometimes cheaper is not better. I am certain the cheaper the Cat the less Platinum / Palladium group metals will be deposited on the ceramic substrates. These noble metals are of course where the magic happens.

Offline woopy

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Hi all

just a further test with the catalytic reaction occuring on the powder i got from the drilling inside my car CAT

http://youtu.be/10CR3bZOYeo

hope this helps

laurent

Online ramset

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 I also did a bit of resistive heater [NOT HHO] testing on a small Tin Manifold .

with 200 watts input
I could not get the outside temp of the small uninsulated manifold over 410 F in 67 F ambient .[played inside for a very quick test]

I would say that looks good for Justin ,Tomorrow I will do more testing
to try and establish some sort of control [and post some pics]

@Justin
If you could post some dimensoins for your CaT I would greatly appreciate it [and pipe size inlet /
outlet for a mockup over here.

@Woopy
fabulous news indeed!

thx
Chet

Offline LibreEnergia

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This thread is about on demand hho used in a catalytic combustion process to yield heat for space heating. Got anything else you would like to add from the peanut gallery?

Yes. Why not use the electricity you used to produce the HHO to do the space heating instead? It will be more efficient..

Unless of course you happen to believe that combusting HHO near a catalytic converter yields an over-unity result. I don't believe that, but I'd be willing to be convinced if someone would offer some real data proving it to be so.

Measure it for  f### sake.



 

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