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Author Topic: Hydrosonic Pump  (Read 126889 times)

Offline FreeEnergy

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« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:42:51 AM by FreeEnergy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Hydrosonic Pump
« on: June 27, 2005, 09:47:29 AM »

Offline joegatt

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2005, 09:29:45 PM »
Very interesting! This is the first time I heard of cavitation being produced deliberately by mechanical means.
In the lab, it is usually done with piezos. 
I think we'll be getting even more surprises from cavitation.

Take a look this webpage, the article on sonoluminescence:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/News.htm

I was particularly impressed with the work of Roger Stringham.


Cheers
Joseph
 

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 10:02:14 PM »
« Last Edit: April 20, 2006, 10:12:26 PM by FreeEnergy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 10:02:14 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 11:30:30 PM »
Yes, the Griggs pump is about 160 % efficient,
there are installations in the Lousianna Fire department
heating and shower rooms.
It is probably one of the first real overunity available products
since a few years.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 12:11:00 AM by hartiberlin »

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2006, 09:43:32 PM »
:D
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 08:41:42 AM by FreeEnergy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2006, 09:43:32 PM »
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Offline rapttor

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 12:45:09 AM »
I've recently built a replication of Grigg's pump, I have to say.. I turned it out in maybe 3hrs on a small scale for proof of concept to see just how well it works. It sure does, only my haste came back to bite me in the ass, when I realized one of the big issues with this pump is sealing the pump shaft. I used a piece of 6061 aluminum for the rotor, pressed in a 5/16 steel shaft, used an old pair of rollerblade bearings, the housing is a piece of 2" chrome steel exhaust piping, with 3/8" thick end plates. I'll post up pics of it shortly. I have a larger unit in the works already which will have a 5.25" rotor inside a section of cast iron pipe.
When I spun up my test model, there's a certain rpm that the cavitation starts to really take off. I didn't do any actual measurements of temps, but with my fingers on the outside of the main casing (tube) it went from room temp to untouchable in a matter of maybe 15 to 20 seconds!! suprised the hell out of me.

Anyone have ideas on how to seal the shaft? Teflon? pressure rings? I'm all ears.
-art

Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 01:36:35 AM »
I've recently built a replication of Grigg's pump, I have to say.. I turned it out in maybe 3hrs on a small scale for proof of concept to see just how well it works. It sure does, only my haste came back to bite me in the ass, when I realized one of the big issues with this pump is sealing the pump shaft. I used a piece of 6061 aluminum for the rotor, pressed in a 5/16 steel shaft, used an old pair of rollerblade bearings, the housing is a piece of 2" chrome steel exhaust piping, with 3/8" thick end plates. I'll post up pics of it shortly. I have a larger unit in the works already which will have a 5.25" rotor inside a section of cast iron pipe.
When I spun up my test model, there's a certain rpm that the cavitation starts to really take off. I didn't do any actual measurements of temps, but with my fingers on the outside of the main casing (tube) it went from room temp to untouchable in a matter of maybe 15 to 20 seconds!! suprised the hell out of me.

Anyone have ideas on how to seal the shaft? Teflon? pressure rings? I'm all ears.
-art

Hi raptor, nice work!
If you post some pics or cross section schematics it might be easier.
Without knowing your exact configuration at the bearing areas, rotational speeds, pressures and temps involved, I'll try some general input:
a. you can try O-rings around the shaft, use a spring and a washer to improve the seal. O-ring against the end plate, washer against the O-ring, one spring-end against the washer and other spring-end against the rotor. I/4" ID O-ring and 5/16" ID washer (they are usually oversized on the ID) and a 3/8 ID spring should do the job.

b. If you have access to any old hydraulic cylinders, they have some nice V-lip seals radialy spring loaded on the shafts and also on the pistons you might use if the dimensions match.

c. materials, would depend on speeds pressure and temps. I'd start with some Silicon O-rings from the local hardware store if you have access to one. Or try depending on Dia the washers used for the hot side water faucets etc.

d. high pressure sealed bearings would to the job too off the self, but they can be expensive, for proof of concept.

e. the easier and simplest way may be to have the shaft to end plates as a simple -slip fit- smooth/polish the surfaces and use option a. above.

Note, the second bearing area can be completely covered. so you'd only need to seal the drive side. (Like an end bell cap, pipe cap, over the free shaft side etc.)

I hope this helps

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 01:36:35 AM »
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Offline dynamicdj101

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 12:02:33 PM »
Hi !!!  I'm new here. You could use a seal from a car or big engine water pump. There are also pumps that use magnets on each side of the pump casing so there isn't a shaft to seal.

Offline rapttor

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 03:56:04 PM »
@ Mikestock

Sure does help, I've wrapped my mind around this issue several times, so what you are explaining... makes perfect sense to me.
I'm on call this week for work(luckyme) and got called out to work on a Cell site at 2a.m. & I didn't get in until 5:30am this morning.
I just hoped in the truck and headed, so I didn't get any pictures yet... but I'll toss up a basic diagram so you have a better idea of where I'm coming from.

Here's some info that I know off the top:
RPM's - approx 8K to 15K (smaller the unit, higher the rpm, larger the lower the rpm).
Temps - 250' F to 350' F
Pressures (water inlet pressure) - up to approx 75 lbs
Bearing Surfaces - On the end plates, on the outside faces, bearings will be recessed, flush with the surface. inner hole dia. would match rotor shaft size & have approx .001 - .003 clearance, easier to seal.

I'll draw some simple diagrams so you have a better mental image of where I'm coming from.

Regards,
-art

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2006, 03:56:04 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2006, 04:56:52 PM »
Did not John Worrell Keely have a hydro-vacuo or hydropneumatic device of some sort? Using the energy of water hammer in bad plumbing?
Paul.

Offline Jerry Volland

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2006, 02:36:18 AM »
I read about something like this back in the 70's.  It was in Search magazine, or a similar publication.  The system used two counter rotating discs, closely spaced in a water jacket.  When the discs were turned at high speed, steam was immediately produced.  The article stated the principle of operation was a cavitation effect, with OU.  I've always believed in this, and I think the excess energy may be coming from the ZPF, with the cavitation bubbles acting as quantum wells.  I wonder if several units can be cascaded, to multiply the OU enough to power a closed loop?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2006, 02:36:18 AM »
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Offline buzneg

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2006, 09:04:00 AM »
motors are 90% efficent, how efficently can one turn steam into electricity? stirling engine, or copper wire, transfering heat to the input water?

Offline rapttor

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2006, 08:10:46 PM »
Jim Griggs was able to produce consistant numbers of 35% - 70% more energy (output as steam) than the drive motor was using. It's not so much the HP of the motor, but rather a motor that's capable of 5-15K RPM so that you can fine tune it for the best efficiency.

-art

Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2006, 09:28:10 PM »
Art,

At 15k rpm on a 5/16 shaft, we are looking at aprox 6.7 m/sec surface speed. (surface speed is one of the critical factors in rotary seal designs, others are pressure, surface finish, liquid chemical reactivity with seal material vs temp etc.)
At 15k rpm it?s borderline between using mid and higher end quality seal material for longevity.
Nitrile might do the job too, PTFE (Teflon type) would be better. Buna-N rubber may not cut it for prolonged periods.
On the non drive side, cap it (no leaks) and use a bronze sleeve bushing, light press fit on the end plate, slip/clearance fit on the shaft, they are very cheap readily available and durable and you can get them with very high tolerances.

Once you post some schematics, it may help to provide more specifics. If you use the inlet through the shaft (requires a much simpler but more expensive design) there are off the self units available that can handle up to 20k rpm, over 1000psi  and temps to 250 F maybe higher depending on materials an usage specs.
For proof of concept the easiest and cheapest solution may still be the silicon O-ring/washer/spring combo suggested earlier.
It all depends on the scope of what the device/experiment is trying to accomplish.

I hope this helps.
Good luck.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: Hydrosonic Pump
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2006, 12:01:30 AM »
Hey raptor we use graphite shaft seals on our pumps ,high pressure steam system . High temp, cheap and very durable. Go to a plumber ask for condensate pump shaft seals.

 

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