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Author Topic: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER  (Read 383310 times)

Offline twinbeard

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #255 on: March 22, 2011, 10:21:51 PM »
I think the "outer core" could be more easily be done with molded material... powdered iron or magnetite or so in a resin, molded around the inner core and secondary windings.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #255 on: March 22, 2011, 10:21:51 PM »

Offline importfanatik

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #256 on: March 23, 2011, 04:03:14 AM »
This dude notes the same decreasing input current effect as Skywatcher123, but offers a possible explanation:
http://pesn.com/2011/03/20/9501793_Two_Toroid_Over-Unity_Gabriel_Device_--_Part_1/

Edit: Sorry, missed the posts above..

Offline doctown4u

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #257 on: May 05, 2011, 05:27:39 AM »
Hi all. I am a newbie in the posting. Have been folowing the thread for a while and gathering materials to do my own build. Half way through my own bi toroid transformer and enjoying the replication by Gabriel. It occured to me that his works but is built backwards. He built it that way only because of the materials he had at hand. Combining Thane's flux following the path of lower resistance logic and having a larger path to follow it to give the difference in reluctance, having the primary as the central core and using the same materials ( such as metatape) in progressive layers outward with the next wind automatically due to the increase of the toroid size as it expands gives a path of less reluctance. Feedback anyone?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #257 on: May 05, 2011, 05:27:39 AM »
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Offline tak22

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #258 on: July 26, 2011, 06:11:36 PM »
In 20 minutes from now at http://www.cbc.ca/radio/

Out of Their Minds: The Perepiteia

Thane Heins, college dropout, former chef at the Canadian Museum of Civilization and basement tinkerer, claims to have created ... wait for it ... a perpetual motion machine.

Out of Their Minds airs Tuesdays at 9:30 am PST on Radio One

If you miss it live you should be able to get later from here: http://www.cbc.ca/outoftheirminds/

tak

Offline tak22

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #259 on: July 27, 2011, 09:56:32 PM »
Here is the link for Thane's CBC interview yesterday:

Quote
Episode 5 - Thane Heins

Thane Heins, college dropout, former chef at the Canadian Museum of Civilization,
basement tinkerer has invented what he describes as a new kind of generator.  He's named
it The Perepiteia which in Greek theatre means an action that has the opposite effect of
what its doer intended.  The generator appears to defy the Law of Conservation of Energy,
which would mean it is, in effect, wait for it....a perpetual motion machine.  Thane is
convinced that if his genrator was adapted to work inside an electrical vehicle it could
recharge the vehicle battery while the car was in motion.  His goal is to end foreign wars
over oil.  In other words, put an end to Road Side Fill Ups and Road Side Bombings...


http://www.cbc.ca/outoftheirminds/2011/07/26/episode-5---thane-heins/

tak


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #259 on: July 27, 2011, 09:56:32 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #260 on: July 27, 2011, 11:12:45 PM »
Tak
Thanks for keeping us up to speed on the "Crankster"!!
I like the idea of Non stop ....................
I think it will catch on??
 ;D
Chet

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #261 on: August 09, 2011, 09:46:18 AM »
This is continuance from discussion started from gabriel thread, started from page 38. Brolis 3d picture of the transformer under test attached.

As I dont have amp meter available I decided to do a comparison test instead, it should give some clue. One more identical coil in the middle so system can work like a normal transformer at the same time. My load side was using 350 watt electric saw.

40 watt light bulb on the primary side
normal trafo: I press start button in the saw, primary side bulb lits to almost full brightness but the blade does not move at all.
modded trafo: Blade does not move, light is dimmer compared to normal trafo.

Next I add 25 watt light bulb in primary side, I keep the saw button pressed.
normal trafo: The 40 watt light dimms little as the 25 watt light up. The total power on the primary side is thus less than 65 watts. Blade moves maybe 1 mm per second.
modded trafo: First lights glow brighter (still fainter compared to normal trafo). I wait the blade to gain full speed and as the speed increases lights go dimmer. Blade moves now faster and it can actually cut 8 mm plywood, slowly though. I can still see the lights dimmly, I would estimate it has about the same brightness as without load.

Another 25 watt bulb in the primary.
normal trafo: Same effect on the lights, they dimm a little more as the third light lits. Now blade moves faster but cannot really cut the wood piece, it jams almost immediately. Both the primary and secondary coil warm up, I would say to same temperature. If I jam the blade there is no effect on the lights.
modded trafo: Again I wait for the blade to speed up. At full speed I can barely see the lights, a mild glow only. Wood is cut nicely but if I press too hard the blade slows down. As the blade slows down the lights go brighter. Both secondary coils get warmer than the primary coil. There is hardly any current going in the primary but it still gets warm. My conclusion is that it gets aiding flux from secondaries or BEMF from the motor gets recycled.

Lastly 40 watt bulb added.
normal trafo: Again rest of lights dimm as new one is added. Now the blade can cut wood and it seems to have equal power compared to modded trafo at this level.
modded trafo: All lights are dead, not even a faint glow visible. Blade runs faster and does not jam anymore. Finally I changed one light bulb to a 1 watt led light bulb to see better how much power might go through primary. When the saw was running at full speed, the 1 watt bulb was not at full brightness, maybe at 50 %. So I was using atmost maybe 4 * 0.5 watts in primary side and getting maybe 60 - 80 watts out, assuming all lights got the same amount of power.

I might get a nice COP figure out of this but I am not interested in exact values as this is too low power. But it clearly shows this design has some potential in it and with bigger cores and thicker coils more power could be possible to get from this quite easily.

Lastly, note that there are no air gaps, not intentionally anyway. I tried one version with 1 mm air gap between two cores but I got less power out. Did not test air gap in the primary coe side. I would say it makes things worse in this design.

This is enough of this from me for now. I hope this shows enough potential so someone makes a replication using better materials, play with permeability difference between cores, use maybe two secondary cores on both sides etc. If you can make a working version, would be nice if you report your findings here, what ever they are.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #261 on: August 09, 2011, 09:46:18 AM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #262 on: August 09, 2011, 09:57:55 AM »
This is continuance from discussion started from gabriel thread, started from page 38. Brolis 3d picture of the transformer under test attached.

As I dont have amp meter available I decided to do a comparison test instead, it should give some clue. One more identical coil in the middle so system can work like a normal transformer at the same time. My load side was using 350 watt electric saw.

40 watt light bulb on the primary side
normal trafo: I press start button in the saw, primary side bulb lits to almost full brightness but the blade does not move at all.
modded trafo: Blade does not move, light is dimmer compared to normal trafo.

Next I add 25 watt light bulb in primary side, I keep the saw button pressed.
normal trafo: The 40 watt light dimms little as the 25 watt light up. The total power on the primary side is thus less than 65 watts. Blade moves maybe 1 mm per second.
modded trafo: First lights glow brighter (still fainter compared to normal trafo). I wait the blade to gain full speed and as the speed increases lights go dimmer. Blade moves now faster and it can actually cut 8 mm plywood, slowly though. I can still see the lights dimmly, I would estimate it has about the same brightness as without load.

Another 25 watt bulb in the primary.
normal trafo: Same effect on the lights, they dimm a little more as the third light lits. Now blade moves faster but cannot really cut the wood piece, it jams almost immediately. Both the primary and secondary coil warm up, I would say to same temperature. If I jam the blade there is no effect on the lights.
modded trafo: Again I wait for the blade to speed up. At full speed I can barely see the lights, a mild glow only. Wood is cut nicely but if I press too hard the blade slows down. As the blade slows down the lights go brighter. Both secondary coils get warmer than the primary coil. There is hardly any current going in the primary but it still gets warm. My conclusion is that it gets aiding flux from secondaries or BEMF from the motor gets recycled.

Lastly 40 watt bulb added.
normal trafo: Again rest of lights dimm as new one is added. Now the blade can cut wood and it seems to have equal power compared to modded trafo at this level.
modded trafo: All lights are dead, not even a faint glow visible. Blade runs faster and does not jam anymore. Finally I changed one light bulb to a 1 watt led light bulb to see better how much power might go through primary. When the saw was running at full speed, the 1 watt bulb was not at full brightness, maybe at 50 %. So I was using atmost maybe 4 * 0.5 watts in primary side and getting maybe 60 - 80 watts out, assuming all lights got the same amount of power.

I might get a nice COP figure out of this but I am not interested in exact values as this is too low power. But it clearly shows this design has some potential in it and with bigger cores and thicker coils more power could be possible to get from this quite easily.

Lastly, note that there are no air gaps, not intentionally anyway. I tried one version with 1 mm air gap between two cores but I got less power out. Did not test air gap in the primary coe side. I would say it makes things worse in this design.

This is enough of this from me for now. I hope this shows enough potential so someone makes a replication using better materials, play with permeability difference between cores, use maybe two secondary cores on both sides etc. If you can make a working version, would be nice if you report your findings here, what ever they are.

I was wondering, do you still have the setup laying around?

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #263 on: August 09, 2011, 10:03:18 AM »
Sure, I am not trashing it until I figure something else to test.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #263 on: August 09, 2011, 10:03:18 AM »
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Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #264 on: August 09, 2011, 10:16:22 AM »
Sure, I am not trashing it until I figure something else to test.

That's  good, I would even go further and suggest after you're done playing  with it, send it to a thrust worthy member on the forum who has a DSO, equipement and skills to analyze it and extract the exact numbers.

Perhaps it would be also usefull for people to suggest places where the cores could be bought for a reasonable price in the US and Europe. I would say for the primary core one could use a 3 phase transformer core (not cheap) but usually the 3 legs on that have the same width, I don't know if that's important or not.

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #265 on: August 09, 2011, 10:52:52 AM »
Well, my prototype is a piece of crap put together using electrical tape, not sure it would survive the rubmle in the mail lol. I have been working in a post office as a young lad. It is better if someone just builds another one, coils were taken from trafos made by chinese company named Jutec.

Any type of coils will work as long as they are rectangular so you can make alternate path between secondaries. It was just some beginners luck that those bigger E-I plates from Amiga trafo fitted inside the coils from Jutec trafos.

I am considering to buy some cores from magnetec to get more powerful version. If I do that I will then get me a new voltmeter to get more accurate results than just a gut feeling. But maybe someone could beat me to it so here is my idea of design how I would make it:

I am thinking about using two M-283 oval cores, then a toroid that fits on top of that, maybe even on both sides. Primary wind would be of 5*5 rectangular uninsulated Litz wire, maybe 0.25 mm thick thread size for start that connects those oval cores in the middle. This would give about 65 mm of space in the core, so with one winding I would get 4*65*5 turns, 1300 total, then several layers and connect individual strands, experiment with bifilar windings at the same time.
Secondary windings connecting oval from other sides to toroid, also 5*5 rectangular Litz, a bit thicker, lets say 0.5 mm strand size and bifilar winds. Again connecting individual strands and enough layers until output voltage matches input.

Hmm, broli maybe you could make another nice picture using ovals and toroids ? I put the spec of M-283 here, there are smaller and bigger ones available. This one costs 60 Eur from their web shop. The toroid(s) I am considering would be of Magneperm having 450000 permeability, but other values will also work. Trafo build entirely from magnetec cores would be quite expensive, maybe iron as primary would also work giving enough power. A payback time of atmost one year would be reasonable. So 200 Eur for cores, 1 kw free out and this could be sold for 1000 Eur to get a nice margin. Thinking of a final product, hehe.

And a note, those magnetec cores are always cased. It could be essential that those ovals touch each other, or it could not be. So more experimenting is needed here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #265 on: August 09, 2011, 10:52:52 AM »
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Offline futuristic

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #266 on: August 09, 2011, 11:19:27 AM »
Hi is there any way that you could barrow a camera to take some pictures and post it here?

It would be really beneficial to actually see the coils and whole setup.
I have a hard time imagining how you quickly changed from normal to heins type trafo.

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #267 on: August 09, 2011, 11:53:40 AM »
Heh, simple things are most beautiful, principle works with software development (my profession, for now) and also with hardware.

Look at the 3d picture, just imagine fourth coil in the middle right above/below the primary. Separate output for that so I got two different outputs connected to standard wall outlets. If I connect to one output then I dont use the other so it has no effect on test result. Then I keep swapping cable from electric saw, one test under 20 secs hehe.

Taking picture is tedious process when using mobile, not enough user friendly to transfer it to computer so I rather avoid it.

Offline broli

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #268 on: August 09, 2011, 12:05:39 PM »
Hmm, broli maybe you could make another nice picture using ovals and toroids ?

I'm pretty sure this is not what you had in mind, but I came up with it trying to visualize yours. In fact this has a special property that I have seen no other BTT variation have. The fields of the two secondaries don't oppose but add up in this setup. Does this change, improve or detriment anything? No clue but I just put the design out there and might even build the setup if the wallet allows it.

red is primary, green are secondaries. Also made the toroid thicker than the oval core.

From Magnetec this could be achieved with:

Oval: M-284  >60000µ @ 50Hz 100 EUR
Toroid: M-113 ~30000µ @ 10kHz 60 EUR
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 12:33:44 PM by broli »

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Thane Heins BI-TOROID TRANSFORMER
« Reply #269 on: August 09, 2011, 12:35:22 PM »
I am not sure this design would work. Look at the flux from primary, the other secondary sees flux from primary and opposing flux from other secondary, they dont add up. Here is a 2d picture of what I mean.

 

OneLink