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Author Topic: The Ossie motor  (Read 266193 times)

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2010, 11:30:57 PM »
Thanks @woopy, @futuristic @mags. Ok I have some wires to close to the rotor for sure. I will get some caps today. Motor back at 1.20 this morn. 83 hours.

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2010, 11:30:57 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2010, 12:21:13 AM »
...

Here enclosed the current test with a 100 ohm resistor at the entry . The motor spins much slower as expected  and the trace is much better on the scope.

and now the question  what does exactly shows this trace ??  pulse output from battery or pulsed input to the battery       is it showing the voltage or only the image of the current ??


Hi Laurent,

To answer your question, I assume you clipped the crocodile ground clip of the scope probe to the 100 Ohm resistor's leg that continues in the wire going towards the coils via the reed switch and the tip of the probe was tied to the resistor leg that went directly to battery positive pole, ok?  If this is so, then what you see in the scope shot picture is the voltage drop across the 100 Ohm that is caused by the current going into the coils when the reed switches are ON, so it is the pulsed output current from the battery. The pulse shape you see is a voltage amplitude but the real current shape is the same because on a pure Ohmic resistance that has but a little reactance the current shape is preserved in the voltage drop shape.

(The peak current is roughly: 1.5V/100 Ohm=0.015A multiplied by the duty cycle.  I averaged the peak Vb=1.92V from the scope shot as 1.5V because the triangle goes from roughly 1V to 1.92V and the rest amplitude from zero to up the 1V under the triangle must be added to the 0.5V averaged from 1 to 1.92).
Your duty cycle is about 23msec/118msec=0.19 (pulse duration/period of a full pulse)  This gives an avarege current of 0.015*0.19=0.0028A i.e 2.8mA

From your 1 Ohm current measurement scope shot, previous page, the peak voltage drop Vb=50.4mV,  using roughly this value gives 50.4mV/1 Ohm=50.4mA and when multiplying this with the duty cycle, 11msec/60msec=0.18  it gives 50.4*0.18=9mA average current consumption.   These calculations are approximate because the pulse shapes are not clearly rectangular.

Supercap: if you have the exact type and manufacturer of your supecaps, then surely there must be a data sheet that includes the equivalent series resistance, ESR for them, look for it on the maker's site.

rgds, Gyula

Offline Light

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2010, 03:04:08 AM »
Thks Captain, yes it's drawing error, I followed schematic from Naudin site.
Will try with more magnets and load on rotor.
Thks.

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2010, 03:04:08 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2010, 05:00:37 AM »
@futuristic this was posted on the Yahoo EVGRAY list
"cooling fan motors usually have permanet magnets in them, and you can feel the notchy rotation to them as the cores in there line up with the magnets so there is some loss using a cooling fan motor as a chasssis unless that is differnt type of cooling fman motor with no permanent magnet in there.

Everythting sounded good, but at last part of pager Naudin says that its not OU

they need to try FWBR AC legs across the switching, and DC into 2nd battery stack.

Run on 3V and charge 1.5V paralell battery stack, or run on 6V and charge 3V parelell batteyr stack or 12V and 6V paralell or 24V anbd 12V paralell batteyr stack etc etc etc

DC from FWBR goes direclty into 2nd battery stack

ONE LEG OF AC LEG OF FWBR gets switched slightly delayed to the motor coil pulse - about 5 degrees retarded approx.

When this sweet spot is found, motor will race up in speed, draw will drop way down, and 2nd battery stack gets charged with as much power as what is running motor in first place if not more...good idea is to charge 4 batteries in paralell while runing on one or two...

charging the same battery that runs the motor, and not seperatre battery stack is always a touchy not "proof positibe" way to do it - voltage rise is not battery charge...but still, I bet using nicad or lithium ion batteries although is OU jsut as Ossie has it going now since they can charge up so fast and last so long on a charge and like those spikes to charge with more than lead acids.

I wonder if his draw to motor goes up when the charging occurs or stays the same with or without the charging.

ciaoK"

What do you think?

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2010, 06:36:21 AM »
Just got home motor had been as low as 1.19 at lunch time it is now back up to 1.21 & bouncing back to 1.20. 90 hours running time

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2010, 06:36:21 AM »
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Offline callanan

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2010, 07:57:31 AM »
Just got A motor had been as low as 1.19 at lunch time it is now back up to 1.21 & bouncing back to 1.20. 90 hours running time

Hi Jimboot,

You are doing GREAT work regardless of your experience because what you have working and have demonstrated already is greater than many experienced experimenters and researchers have ever done!

The motor appears to like a particular operating voltage depending on it's construction parameters. Most builders will start with their motor running at a voltage that's either higher or lower than what the motor likes. If your battery voltage is higher than this point then as the battery runs down the motor should hit this point. If your battery voltage is lower then it will never hit this point.

The motor is essentially an AC device. So the frequency of operation and the matching impedance of the motor to the battery are important key factors in finding that resonant balance point where the motor just keeps running and running...

But I am not advocating that builders start trying difference voltages to start with. It is important to first get the efficiency as high as possible for your build in terms of the lowest input power possible for the best and reasonable rate of RPMs. IE, if you can get the motor to run on zero milliamps, then the voltage doesn't matter all that much then, does it?

One more thing for people to get used to in regard to extended run times. Depending on the battery type, batteries themselves have a built in self discharge factor. This self discharge factor is hightened when AC is sent through the battery. This is what this motor does. So even if your battery is discharging very, very slowly, you are still producing a greater amount of energy out of the motor

Regards,

Ossie

« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 10:11:04 AM by callanan »

Offline futuristic

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2010, 08:11:17 AM »
@Ossie:
Great to have you back with us.  :)

@Jimboot:
About that quote. I need some time to study it because English is not my first language and I don't wan't to missunderstand anything.
BTW: Your results are just amazing. ;)

Have fun,
Frenky

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2010, 08:11:17 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2010, 08:22:04 AM »
Just can't bring my self to stop this motor! When I saw the volts had gone up I just had to tweak the reeds. I realise my own energy input into the circuit is tantamount to a hand crank but the levels are continuing to rise. An what point is my energy input negated?

The way I tune my Ossie is to hold the coils on with large self tapping screws. I then site the reed switches on the backs of those screws. The screws do 2 things for my motor that I have observed. They act as mini-toroid and as a trigger mechanism for my reeds. Whilst the motor was bouncing between 1.20 & 1.21 I realised I could switch to a 2V scale on the multimeter & get an extra decimal place -well duh I hear you say. I'm learning :) So I could se that the volts were cycling up and down. I thought about what Ossie said re getting your gen pulse larger than the activation pulse and moved the reed connected directly to the neg side of the circuit half a cm further along its terminal connected to the screw and made sure the glass of the other reed was directly in contact with the screw.

The voltage is now cycling between 1.223 & 1.227. It has been climbing steadily for the last 45min hour. In the last 15min it has risen .002 The gen pulse is a lot longer now as well. I'll take some more pix of the reed positions & upload. It just rose another.01

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2010, 09:10:59 AM »
Battery at 1.236 now.

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2010, 09:10:59 AM »
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Offline woopy

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2010, 09:36:51 AM »

Wowww!!

this page is one of the best i have ever seen in this forum.



First thanks to Ossie to bring back here your fantastic  knowledge and experience

thanks Gyula  thats exactly what i needed to learn. I can now much better understand what is going on

Jb yes go on the good work

Frenky i am with you  i have just received my schottkys and some coils and a inductance meter


and now at work

bravo to all

Laurent

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2010, 09:51:53 AM »
My non-rechargeable baterry is now at 1.24. Since retuned without disconnecting it has risen .008 per hour.

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2010, 09:51:53 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2010, 10:00:52 AM »
Yaaaay! @ossie is back! Missed your post entirely because I was so excited about my motor! Great to have you back. Just got my second one started up. Not tuned yet and the rotor is running a little rough. Thanks for all your great advice. That really makes sense to me about the motor fitting to battery. I never got the results from my ^V that I am getting from my old dcell.

I bought a stethoscope to listen to the coils and switches. Sounds like a steam train starting up! I love it. Great to have you back. This is what I do for a day job http://stewartmedia.biz if you are ever in Melb. Our offices are down Frankston way. I feel like the boys at Jaycar down here are always waiting for the next installment when I walk in :)

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2010, 10:35:11 AM »
btw @ossie I am still using your org circuit. Haven't even put a resistor in it yet let alone a rectifier or Shottkys. I'm building the new motor with the current JLN circuit. edit: Battery at 1.245. Is there any significance in the battery being a bog standard alkaline?

Offline futuristic

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #58 on: February 05, 2010, 11:11:48 AM »
My non-rechargeable baterry is now at 1.24. Since retuned without disconnecting it has risen .008 per hour.
Great, what is now all the run time together?

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The Ossie motor
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2010, 11:12:55 AM »
battery has stoped rising at 1.244. It got as high as 1.245

 

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